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Discussion Topic: Dream Team 2012
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on August 25, 2008
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Bill Splete's comments on the SH-T thread got me thinking about the next Olympics and which wrestlers might be ready to take over for the USA.
Given the current weight classes, who would you like to see focus hard on the next Olympics. Let's stick to men's freestyle on this thread in order to make this simple. Here are some of the guys I'm thinking about...
121: Cejudo--for obvious reasons. Not sure who else to look at for this weight.
132: Logan Stieber, Angel Escobedo--I'm assuming Stieber will grow into this weight. He has demonstrated a great knowledge of the sport at a young age. Escobedo also has the right style to successfully transition to freestyle in my opinion. He has great quickness and flexibility--much like Cejudo
145: Brent Metcalf, J. Jaggers:
Metcalf has the drive to be a great freestyler. Jaggers 3rd, 1st in Fargo and perfect size for this weight class. I think J. has always been a winner and that he has the right demeanor to come up big when it most matters.
163: Ben Askren, Mike Poeta, Keith Gavin:
Askren needs to get much better on his feet. He's ugly to watch but seems to be a master of tactics. He's the best we've got right now. Poeta and Gavin are throw ins. I have no idea if they're really suitable although both have some obvious talent.
185: Mike Pucillo, Jake Varner
Iron Mike's would make a great freestyler under the current rules. His ability to handfight, hold the center and beat on his opponents head are perfect for wearing out opponents while looking for that one good shot. Plus, his two best takedowns--his high C and front head series--are low risk for freestyle. Another positive--he wouldn't have to cut weight. Varner is already an accomplished freestyler in the USA. The issue for him would be the weight cut. He's already moving up to 197. Perhaps he should be listed at 211.5
211.5: J.D. Bergman, Phil Davis, (Guy from American)
Bergman can train in either freestyle or greco but I'll list him here. Not sure he has the right type of leg attacks (or speed) at this weight. Indeed, he's probably better suited for Greco. Davis just won NCAA's and has great athleticism. The guy I really like is the former champ from American whose name I'm blanking on at the moment. He has so much talent; harness it to freestyle and you have a real up and comer.
264: Tom Rowlands, Tervel Dlagnev, Dustin Fox
I know he's retired but who else is there? He's still the best guy in this country and Mocco's solid, unspectacular Olympics demonstrated he's just too limited to get it done when it most matters. No doubt in my mind that if Tom had the same draw, he'd have medalled. Dlagnev is probably the guy most ready to take over if TR remains on the sidelines. Fox is a much better wrestler than he is given credit for being. Could he make this cut? If Konrad did it, Fox could as well.
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Discussion Topic: Dream Team 2012
Ken Ramsey Sr. added to this discussion on August 25, 2008
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Hank:
I think you will see many new names not on this list who will be in the hunt. Cejudo. Metcalf and Varner will be in the freestyle hunt and Bergman has a good chance in greco. Jaggers is injury prone and may have a tough time staying healthy through a tough National and World Team Trials. Pucillo may have a better chance in greco. Stieber has great youth credentials, but who knows what will happen in college and on the freestyle/greco circuit (re:C.P., Dustin and many others). Only Cejudo and Mocco look like they have any chance of repeating from this year's team.
Don't be surprised to see some Iowa guys in the hunt for 2012.
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Discussion Topic: Dream Team 2012
Dan Cosimi added to this discussion on August 25, 2008
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"121: Henry Cejudo
132: Logan Stieber, Angel Escobedo
145: Brent Metcalf, J Jaggers
163: Ben Askren, Mike Poeta, Keith Gavin
185: Mike Pucillo, Jake Varner
211: J.D. Bergman, Phil Davis, (Guy from American)
264: Tom Rowlands, Tervel Dlagnev, Dustin Fox"
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Yes on many of them, no on some of them.
121: Henry Cejudo is an Olympic gold medalist, so yes.
132: Logan Stieber is ridiculously talented, another yes. As for Angel Escobedo, I'm not sure. Success at 125 in folkstyle doesn't necessarily translate. Troy Nickerson might be another one to look out for here. Shawn Bunch is definitely one to watch out for. He is one of the most explosive wrestlers I've seen.
145: Brent Metcalf, I think, will be the most prepared to be an Olympic gold medalist of any of the folkstylers. I'd mark him as a definite yes. J Jaggers, on the other hand, has had serious injury problems. I'd love to see him continue to compete but my hunch is that he won't after this season. It would be awesome to see Dustin Schlatter at this weight (or better yet at 163 if he can build himself up to that weight).
163: Ben Askren is just too determined and talented to not win an international medal. Remember this was only his first year away from NCAA competition. He's another definite yes. Mike Poeta is another extremely talented wrestler. He's more fundamentally sound and athletic than Askren, but I'm not sure he'll be able to beat the nation's best scrambler. I can't see Poeta not going for it though. He might be stuck behind Askren for a while like Joe Heskett was behind Joe Williams at this weight not too long ago. Keith Gavin has had notable success at the senior level in freestyle and he has only been out of NCAA competition for a few months. Can he beat Askren? Maybe in the future but as of right now I wouldn't bet on it. He might go for it anyway.
185: Jake Varner, I would say, is a definite yes. I could easily see him growing into 211, though. With Cael Sanderson and Casey Cunningham on staff at Iowa State, he's getting great training from great wrestlers not far removed from their prime. Varner has already had notable success at the senior level in freestyle and he was only a sophomore in college this past year. As for Mike Pucillo, he is definitely talented enough but he just doesn't like freestyle (he told me at a camp this summer) and he doesn't have as much success in it as he does in folkstyle. Don't expect him to be wrestling freestyle any time soon, if ever. Jake Herbert will be around and I think he will do very well. Of course Varner did beat him already but that's only one result.
211: J.D. Bergman, if he doesn't want to compete in Greco-Roman, is a definite yes, unless his injuries have caught up with him. He has already had some success on the senior level in both styles. Phil Davis is very talented, but he's committed himself to training for MMA. I don't know if he's even thinking much about freestyle. Josh Glenn is in interesting prospect. I don't know how he's done in freestyle but I think he would do well. If Mo Lawal continues to compete, he might be the one to beat at this weight class.
264: Tommy Rowlands is done competing, so I'll mark him down as a no. Dustin Fox has always excelled as a Greco-Roman wrestler so I think there's a good chance that will be the route he takes if he chooses to compete at the senior level. I'd mark him as a maybe. Tervel Dlagnev is a great prospect and I think he very well could be the future at this weight class. He has had success at the senior level already and hasn't been out of college very long. Scott Steele, who will be a senior at Navy, was third at the Olympic Trials. He is one to watch out for. I think Steve Mocco did well at the Olympics despite not getting a medal. I don't think he's finished yet.
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Last edited by Dan Cosimi on August 25, 2008; edited 1 time in total
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Discussion Topic: Dream Team 2012
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on August 25, 2008
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If Ohio State can get the Buckeye Wrestling Club exactly (or even close to) where they want it, is there a chance a guy like Reece or Nikko could be a name we see in a few years?
Shawn Bunch = WOW!!!
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Discussion Topic: Dream Team 2012
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on August 25, 2008
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Cejudo
keeps the 121 job as long as he wants it. He's young and better than anyone around or coming up. It will be interesting to see what path he chooses from here. whether he stays at the OTC or picka a college and dominates or just retires.
I think Logan Stieber is amazing. He's the best junior in the country, but he's still just a junior. In 2012, he'll be just completing his sophomore year at tOSU. Without full time OTC training (a la Cejudo), I can't se him making a run while still so young. I think 2016 is probably a better target (and maybe 145). He'll be 25 and out of school, able to train full time if he chooses.
More likley, a guy like 4x AA and National Champion,
Coleman Scott
continues to improve and is the guy for 2012.
Looking at the way he's progressed over the last couple of years, I don't know how anyone wouldn't consider
Brent Metcalf
the favorite for the London games. I think Jaggers is excellent. I love watching him and I truly belive he'll win another title this season. But I think a Jaggers/Metcalf match would turn out very similar to the way the Jenkins/Metcalf matches did. Just too much horse-power from the Iowa junior. Metcalf is your man at 145 in 2012.
I look for
Askren
to make another jump in the coming years and medal in the 2012 games. Maybe a World medal in 2010 or 2011. Regardless, I don't see that spot going to anyone else any time soon.
It's clear by his results that
Pucillo
is right there (or better) than Varner and Herbert. I think he has as good a shot as anyone.
211. There's always one guy who gets through that people weren't expecting. I see
Tyrel Todd
going 197 this year and growing into a fine 211 freestyler. He surprises the field to make the 2012 team.
I know a lot of Ohio State fans look at
Mocco
's performance as a poor one. He doesn't have a lot of international experience, but he will next time around. With Rowlands out of the picture, I don't see anyone in the US pushing him any time soon. Look for him to have a Kerry McCoy type run for a little while.
*The only monkey wrench for Mocco could be Tervel Dlagnev. If he were to take the OTC rout for four years, with his skill set, the sky's the limit.
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Discussion Topic: Dream Team 2012
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on August 25, 2008
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Shawn Bunch is fun to watch but neither he, nor Gallick nor Zadick were even able to qualify this weight class for the Olympics. Bunch could be terrific but has a ways to go.
Escobedo reminds me a lot of Cejudo. Great speed and flexibility. I think he'd make a terrific transition to freestyle.
I'm surprised a few of you don't see Pucillo's potential for freestyle. The weight class is perfect for him as he doesn't have to cut weight (which we know he doesn't want to do). Secondly, the structure of freestyle bouts is simple--score and protect to win the period. That's the way to win especially in the upperweights. Pucillo has the right type of attacks and defense to be successful. Herbert, by contrast, had a disappointing year in freestyle in spite of focusing on it.
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Discussion Topic: Dream Team 2012
Mike Hojnacki added to this discussion on August 25, 2008
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I don't know if any of you guys saw Askren's interview with FloWrestling, but he didn't sound to enthused about wrestling anymore, which is understandable considering that he didn't have the Olympics that he wanted. He mentioned MMA, so I don't know where that puts him... As far as this weight goes, I don't know where Tyrone Lewis stands, but he, Travis Paulson, and Ryan Churella are also ones to consider.
This is a tangent, but does anyone know what happened to Joe Warren? I know he was banned from competition for a year... He sure would have been nice to have on the Greco-Roman team.
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Discussion Topic: Dream Team 2012
Dan Ransick added to this discussion on August 25, 2008
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I doubt we will see the likes of Stieber or Taylor in the Olympics in 2012. Both would be young wrestlers and still training in college. I think that their chance happens in 2016.
121: Cejudo - I forsee him having at least two more Olympics, maybe three. He will have a stranglehold on this weight for years to come.
132: Scott - He made it to the finals of U.S. Nationals this year before losing to Bunch. Bunch could be it but he would be over 30 by then. Do not leave out Humphrey who showed us what he can do internationally at University Worlds this year.
145: Metcalf - He is the future at this weight. I could see him winning the gold in 2012 with his style. A lot of the wrestlers in this weight will be gone by then and it will be him or Esposito.
163: Askren - Is not going anywhere. He is the future at this weight and I think the next Olympics I could see Gold for him. Look at how much he has improved just in a year of International wrestling, give him 4 and you better watch out.
185: Herbert - I think by this time in 2012 Herbert will be the dominant force at this weight. He will have enough experience and training to make a great run at the Olympics.
211: Hahn - I think he will stick around for the next Olympics and make a run for a spot finally. I think Cormier is done at this weight. Bergman could sneak in here if healthy.
264: Mocco - Mocco will be in his early 30's and I think he will have a bitter taste from his performance at this Olympics.
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Discussion Topic: Dream Team 2012
Bill Splete added to this discussion on August 25, 2008
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I think all your picks are grounded in sound reason. My long shot for 185 in 2012 is Kilgore, he has made great leaps into freestyle, and the kid is plain tough. Should be an AA next year and has done well at freestyle. I still think that Logan is a serious threat in 2012. He moves up levels fast and well it's hard to see him denied if he goes after it. This may all seem like a stretch, but I would like to see another Ohio guy on the team. By the way let's not count out Andy, he may want to clear up unfinished business. He'll have experience and god knows he is not easy to beat.
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Discussion Topic: Dream Team 2012
Josh Lowe added to this discussion on August 25, 2008
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121 - This is Cejudo's weight for as long as he cares to compete. Does MMA come into play for him given that he's achieved his gold already? This could be the beginning/continuation of a long run for Cejudo as the USA #1 at 121 (2008 was his second senior world championship).
(Can Mango keep at 121 in four years on the Greco side? What about the younger Mango? Hazewinkel staying down?)
132 - Scott and Bunch did battle in the Challenge Tournament final at the Olympic Team Trials. Both are young and dynamic. Them and Gallick are probably the lead contenders in this weight. Of course, none of those three are world-level forces yet. I'm guessing Mike Zadick move up in weight and/or is towards the end of his run.
(Warren is on the Greco side and had a banned substance suspension for this Olympic Games. He would be 34 in 2012. Joe Betterman by then should emerge into his element though. Do Hazewinkel, Grajales, and/or Chase emerge into the lead challenger?)
145.5 - For what most consider to be the deepest weight in the USA, there was no elite wrestler in the world context. One would think Metcalf will establish himself as the wrestler to watch for the USA at this weight. I personally see success at the world and Olympic level for Brent with the sky being the limit.
(It won't be Deitchler at 145.5, he'll probably be up to 163 by the next year or so. I'm not sure what the Greco side has here)
163 - Does Askren even want to wrestle? It's amazing that what was such a strong weight just three short years ago with Williams and Heskett at the top with Pritzlaff, Kirk White, and other behind - has deteriorated into Askren and not much else (with Askren not impressing much at the senior level). A driven and committed Askren is capable of being a legit world level force.
(Deitchler should be here on the Greco side. Does Lester make a comeback by 2012? Jon Drendel is a name to watch, he's the best USOEC guy in the 157ish weight, beat Deitchler in Fargo 2006). Cheney Haight was the #2 to Dantzler).
185 - I think Pendleton is the name to watch in this weight in the coming years, as he hones in on the freestyle techniques. Good enough to win two NCAA titles knocking off Askren both times. As much as Hrovat is a local, I thought that Lawal and maybe another wrestler were better against broader competition
(Not sure if Vering comes back on the Greco side. Chas Betts would be the leading contender on the Greco side, I remember him beating David Craig in Fargo a few years back)
211.5 - Always a tough weight to project. If Damian Hahn wants to keep competing, I'd like to see what he could do on the World level.
(Ruiz and Wheeler were relatively seasoned this year, but both have unfinished business for 2012. Does Bergman compete on the Greco side?)
264.5 - Despite the pro-Rowlands (anti-Mocco) sentiment on this board, I think Mocco is the best USA hope for awhile. He's always competed solidly in his world competition, but such as his style is in low margin matches. I think Dlagnev is best suited to make that leap to challenge Mocco.
(Byers was a veteran, Taylor a veteran though not world proven, Davie was next best but not overwhelming. Kowlczuk is the young gun at USOEC. Nye and Smith from CA are solid guys, could be at 211.5 as well. Cole Konrad may try his luck here too)
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Discussion Topic: Dream Team 2012
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on August 28, 2008
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If he can maintain the weight, Bubba Jenkins -- the 2007 Jr. World Champ -- will play a major roll in this weight. His style seems perfectly fit for the current freestyle rules.
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Discussion Topic: Dream Team 2012
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on August 29, 2008
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Mike H: Joe Warren was banned from competition after testing positive for a banned substance. Allegedly the substance was marijuana and he tested positive for it more than once.
Brady: Good point on Bubba Jenkins. His incredible speed makes him a very good freestyler. He could become a lot like Cejudo--who seemed able to get on his opponents legs almost at will.
Andy Hrovat is still young and in very good physical condition. I don't think he's married/has a family which makes it alot easier for him to continue training. He's clearly #1 at 185 right now. It would be great to see him continue competing.
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Discussion Topic: Dream Team 2012
Mike Hojnacki added to this discussion on August 29, 2008
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Thanks for the clarification. I knew that Joe was banned, but unsure as to how long. It sure would be nice to see him back.
Depending on what happens with Cormier, you could see Lawal back up at 96kg making him one of the top guys there. Thus making is somewhat easier for Hrovat to maintain his spot at 84kg. Obviously, Herbert will be out of college by 2012 and have been training freestyle consistently for several years. It will be interesting to see what happens...
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Discussion Topic: Dream Team 2012
Harry Lester added to this discussion on August 29, 2008
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mike, Warren was banned for two years starting the day he failed his test which was trials of 2007. So he can come back next summer if he wanted, but from convos with him he is taking the MMA path. He has been training for a year and has a contract with some club. He will probably be fighting here within the next couple of months.
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Discussion Topic: Dream Team 2012
Mike Hojnacki added to this discussion on August 29, 2008
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Thanks Harry. Well, wish him he best in whatever he decides to do, although it is a bummer.
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