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Discussion Topic: Oregon dropping wrestling!
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on July 22, 2007

Mary--There are a handful of NE Ohio hs coaches that I believe could do a good job as they have the intellect and organizational skills necessary. The question is: would they have the desire? (I'm sure there are other similarly capable leaders around the state).

As you noted, it's a crusade for whomever chooses this undertaking. My Mom was actively involved in local 795 when she was a teacher and she impressed upon me how committed the officers had to be to represent the membership. For smaller sports to keep from going extinct, it's going to take a "union" president and an active membership. The first part, as you brought up, is to organize.

What offices did you run for?



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Discussion Topic: Oregon dropping wrestling!
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on July 22, 2007

Mary posts, ""There is someone out there who could do it. They just have to step forward. I would certainly do all in my power to help."

well, i cant agree Hank that there are a number of NE Ohio coaches capable of doing this, it would take an extraordinary person to do this on a multi-state level and by definition"extraordinary" people are rare and unique. It would take a person with passion, time, dedication, leadership abilties, influence in wrestling, vision, incredible toughness to stay the course, and brains. Unusual traits in one package.
-----------------------------------------------------------

Mary posts, "Bob - I understand your feelings. At what point do we draw a line in the sand and protect the little that remains?"

at what point, Mary ? that point has long since been past.

And who are "we" ? You bring up good point, Mary, that perhaps all non-revenue sports need to band together, not being a naysayer i still must point out obstacles:

1. All no-revenue sports NOT in same boat, Womens non-revenue are in very good shape, they all get plenty of scholarships--- as someone pointed out Rowing team gets 20.
2. Do MENS non-revenue band together, is there enough "commonality" to hold all MENS non-revenue together ??? or does each separate MENS non-revenue each have their own particular issues ???
3. Its like forming a Union--- Auto Workers have a common interest and industry. Same for Steelworkers, Restaurant Workers, Teamsters, etc.
4. WHAT LEVERAGE DOES NON-REVENUE HAVE, in fact what leverage does wrestling have ??
5. Just maybe all MENS non-revenue is too spread out, too dissimilar-- and each of the sports is in its own particular situation. Mens soccer is in good shape, so they don't share wrestling's problems.

What has occurred in California, the "Fight to Save Fresno St Wrestling" is the type of effort that should have been made EVERY time wrestling was dropped. To quote the line from the movie Network, "I'm mad as helll and i'm not going to take it any more", this should have been wrestlings anthem going back 30 years or more .

I know some of the leaders of that effort in California and i told them when they started that they need to learn from the Womens and Civil Rights movements: We aint going away quietely, in fact we aint going away at all". At Fresno i am sure the President and AD never dreamed this much trouble and bad PR would be stired up and be still continuing.

i remember when the the President of Miami of Ohio told Pat Galbincea of the PD that "it was still in the study stage". Pat passed that on to me as if it was perhaps hopefully true. ------- i told Pat, its gone baby, its gone, the Pres was just appeasing the press. And i was right. Righteous anger is needed, wrestling has been diplomatic too long.



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Discussion Topic: Oregon dropping wrestling!
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on July 23, 2007

Here's the good news. As a result of Title 9/Budgetary cuts, etc...we have seen the birth of a new wrestling organization--the National Collegiate Wrestling Assn. It's club wrestling and certainly not the highest level of competition. But, there are 136 (by my count) NCWA clubs and that number increases constantly. Ohio has 11 clubs alone. As a result of this organization, a framework is in place for post high school wrestling to grow even as the NCAA continues to ignore our demise.

Wrestling is wrestling and the number of NCWA programs will eventually exceed all other NCAA and NAIA programs combined. I don't think anyone can understate the importance of the NCWA to our sport's future. Remember, no one can cut these programs as they are inexpensive to run and not funded by the schools they represent. I am confident that we'll see the level of competition at NCWA increase as the quality of coaches filters down to this level.

To paraphrase Russ Hellickson, author of "I am Wrestling":

I have existed in some form in every culture throughout recorded history. Ignore me if you want but I will outlast all other sports.

That's not exactly what he wrote but you get the gist.



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Discussion Topic: Oregon dropping wrestling!
Mary Thoburn added to this discussion on July 23, 2007

Hank - I was the school board "member from h**l". And I enjoyed every minute of it. The reason I say that one person can make a difference, is that I lost by 3 votes the first time I ran. The second time, I ran by emphasizing the positive changes I was advocating, and won by a landslide. So, some lessons learned there. And I personally haven't missed an election since.

Bob - I agree this would take an extraordinary person. They don't necessarily have to come from the wrestling community. By broadening the base, you increase the chance of attracting someone of quality.

Women's sports may appear to be in good shape, but since it ultimately is about money, at what point will we have football + basketball = # of women's scholarships? And I know, for instance, that a few women's programs were cut at Slippery Rock when they cut wrestling. Consider the numbers involved in men's track - when they cut that many schollies, do they a) add a women's program, or b) call it a day, and balance the budget?

Nonrevenue sports have a monumental commonality - survival. This effort needs to be very focused on one single message. Whoever takes this on must resist attempts by others with their own agenda and axe to grind, and keep it simple. I remember when I was running for office, I got approached by any number of nut cases, you just have to be tactful - don't alienate potential supporters, but don't allow them to attach their agenda to yours.

I am glad you brought up the Fresno State situation. What did they do? They got noisy. I am just suggesting we can make even more noise by involving other sports. That is part of the leverage. And I agree the time for diplomacy is past. You have to make it painful, so that others think twice before cutting a sport. And pursue legislative means to force them to comply.



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Discussion Topic: Oregon dropping wrestling!
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on July 23, 2007

Mary,
i am in favor of the " Fresno St " approach, rain hell on everyone from the Board of Regents on down, and stay on it. Fresno may ultimately win their program back, i believe, such has been the pressure bought to bear.

and i have to be cynical about legislative pressure, etc, it hasnt worked yet--- been tried by NWCA who brought lawsuit, lobbied, pulled their hair out for years. And i don't believe in the Extraordinary person on a white horse. ---- Each battle must be fought independently on home turf by people who care about that particular program.

as former House Speaker Tip O'Neal said, "All politics is local", same with this issue.


Mens non-revenue sports are in different stages of distress, e.g. gymnastics almost extinct, barely enough mens college programs, under 30, to be a legit NCAA sport. And no one outside wrestling understands wrestling culture. Would wrestling understand or care about fencing ??

i got to go, i'm headed to Fargo, my annual pilgramage to a place where the sport is quite healthy, over 4,000 high school age wrestlers incl 200 women..



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Discussion Topic: Oregon dropping wrestling!
Mary Thoburn added to this discussion on July 24, 2007

Frankly, I am not sure the legislative approach is the right one, either. Just doing some "thinking out loud", as it were.

Maybe a better target would be the NCAA. I don't know what they have been doing, if anything, to address the bleeding in nonrevenue sports. It seems to me that their "mission" would oblige them to act, but such is the power of money and influence in college athletics perhaps. I can't help believe there are people in that organization concerned about the issue.

It would be great if the NCAA made colleges jump through burning hoops of compliance before cutting a program. Like making them defend cutting one program v. across the board cuts. And sanctioning them if they can't make the case. If they truly represent the "student athlete", why do they allow discrimination v. one group of athletes over another?



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Discussion Topic: Oregon dropping wrestling!
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on May 11, 2017

May 11th, 2017 and I'm still bitter.

Good day.



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Discussion Topic: Oregon dropping wrestling!
Joe Kinzel added to this discussion on May 11, 2017

Quote from Mark Niemann's post:

"May 11th, 2017 and I'm still bitter.

Good day."



Haven't bought a pair of Nikes in ten years!



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Discussion Topic: Oregon dropping wrestling!
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on May 12, 2017

God bless you, Joe!



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Discussion Topic: Oregon dropping wrestling!
Chris Shepherd added to this discussion on May 13, 2017

Same here. And I puke in my mouth a little when I see Phil Knight as the honorary coach of the Buckeyes in the spring game.



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