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Discussion Topic: End of an era?
Jerry Des Forges added to this discussion on January 20, 2009
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I completely agree with most of what has been stated above.
Kids now a days are starting way too early (IMO). I feel the perfect age to begin is around 4th grade. This allows them to be physically ready to participate in the sport and somewhat mentally aware of the commitment and what it will take to succeed. I recall going to my CYO practices in 4th and 5th grade and just getting whooped on and never wanting to go back. Everyday was a struggle to go to practice- i would do everything in my power not to go - my mother would not have any of this (she came from the mid 1970's North Olmsted era where this would not be tolerated).
For what it is worth Dave Held was my coach at St. Brendan and practices were pretty tough-- and he reminds me to this day when I see him how much I hated the sport.
Do we really need an elementary state champion (let's have the kid not peek by age 7).
Let kids be kids and have sleep overs and what not before making them commit to two day tournaments by the age of 5.
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Discussion Topic: End of an era?
William Danforth added to this discussion on January 21, 2009
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In the mid to late 70s our Crestwood team had three full teams - freshman, JV and Varsity. There was no youth wrestling in the school district. I believe there was 7 and 8th grade.
I started wrestling as a freshman. There was nothing else to do. Either wrestle or basketball. There was no hockey or swimming. No computers, playstation or cable tv to entertain us.
The duals against Southeast and Streetsboro were sellouts with extra bleachers setup on the stage. When Streetsboro hosted they made a production out of it with the spot light, music and are mascot hung from the rafters. Southeast and Crestwood sellouts were just from strong farm community pride.
Our teams were made up of mixture of club wrestler and hard nosed farm boys taught to wrestle by one of three quality coaches- Frank Dinapali, Ralph Graham or Dave Merek.
Todays kids are soft, spoiled and have many more option to consume there time.
In my day it was the in thing to be on the wrestling team. First wrestling I ever saw was at practice after a month of grueling conditioning. Our state championship team didn't have "Adam the Take Down Dummy" they used me instead!
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Discussion Topic: End of an era?
Roe Fox added to this discussion on January 21, 2009
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All great points, particularly about the state of our youth today. High school can be a tough time socially so those that don't easily fit in go home and jump on the computer, phone, etc., other than interact with human beings.
I wish public schools would do what my high school did: do away with gym class and require students to play on teams. As freshmen you had to play a varsity sport. As upperclassmen, they had intramurals if you didn't wish to continue with the varsity sports.
I'm sure there are several limitations to doing this, including money. It sure would expose students to more sporting opportunities they might otherwise avoid. They might even stick it out.
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Discussion Topic: End of an era?
Mike Taylor added to this discussion on January 21, 2009
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Quote from Roe Fox's post:
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"All great points, particularly about the state of our youth today. High school can be a tough time socially so those that don't easily fit in go home and jump on the computer, phone, etc., other than interact with human beings.
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It is funny you mention this. I owe so much to the sport of wrestling for helping me during that awkward time of my life. Because my brother and I had committed so much time during the off season, we saw our skills develop (only makes sense). However, as we got better, we became more popular. People came to watch US for a change. This in turn helped my confidence as a young teen looking for acceptance. It also gave me a group of friends on the team that I wouldn't have traded for the world. The value of sports goes far beyond the scholarship possibilities. It can develop a positive self image like it did in me. Too bad too many parents are so short sighted they don't realize this.
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Discussion Topic: End of an era?
Jerry Des Forges added to this discussion on January 22, 2009
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Quote from Roe Fox's post:
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"All great points, particularly about the state of our youth today. High school can be a tough time socially so those that don't easily fit in go home and jump on the computer, phone, etc., other than interact with human beings.
I wish public schools would do what my high school did: do away with gym class and require students to play on teams. As freshmen you had to play a varsity sport. As upperclassmen, they had intramurals if you didn't wish to continue with the varsity sports.
I'm sure there are several limitations to doing this, including money. It sure would expose students to more sporting opportunities they might otherwise avoid. They might even stick it out."
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I hope not -- I would lose my teaching job
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Discussion Topic: End of an era?
Roe Fox added to this discussion on January 23, 2009
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Certainly a problem to be addressed for the greater good. Gym would certainly be scheduled as a last period for the day and the teachers could help coach. Have no suggestions for the off-season.
Don't worry, this isn't likely to happen anyway but it sure was successful where I went to school.
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Discussion Topic: End of an era?
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on January 23, 2009
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"Bob: I agree with your points on the decline of wresting in Cuyahoga County. Look at the public schools. Name one in Cuyahoga county that's really good--Brecksville...maybe Mayfield. Maple? (They're an imitation of the great squads they used to put on the mat). None of these teams have the type of tough lineups top to bottom that were more common 20 years ago.
What I can't figure out is why so many schools that have competitive youth programs are so average at the high school level. Maybe it's just that the public schools which lack open enrollment are at a significant competitive disadvantage. Or maybe there's a disconnect between the youth competitors and their high school staffs.
I used to go to the Mentor District and just shake my head at the number of quality kids from the Cleveland area that wouldn't make state. Now, the same public programs that always had 6-8 good kids in their lineup might have 1-2.
I just don't think there are as many good kids left for Eds to attract."
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Hank, keep in mind that Maple Heights High School, and the city in general, is NOTHING like it was in the 60s, 70s, and even 80s. That being said, Jaime does a remarkable job with what is now essentially a Cleveland city school. To say it is an "imitation" is really not fair, though knowing you I doubt if you had bad intentions with that comment.
Mayfield High School today looks like Mayfield High School of 20 years ago, so does Brecksville. Maple is faaaar from that. Jaime and Rick LaScala are the carry overs in that school and community from a time where it was a great place to grow up. From a time where it had three vibrant shopping centers, two wonderful Rec centers, two beautifully maintained little league complexes, many churches that were important parts of the community, people who truly cared about each other, and of course sold out dual meets with 3000 people in attendance.
Excuse me while I wax nostagic about the Maple Heights that I grew up in, but Jaime and Rick do their best to keep some part of that alive today.
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Discussion Topic: End of an era?
Pat Costilow added to this discussion on January 24, 2009
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Roe, what school was that? We had that system when I was in high school, with exceptions of course. The guys that played soccer year round were exempt, etc. I thought the system worked well.
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Discussion Topic: End of an era?
Roe Fox added to this discussion on January 24, 2009
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Pat:
Western Reserve Academy. City boy who got a scholarship. I'm sure you could have guessed that given your apparent connection to U.S. Times sure change. When I went you guys were our last game in football every year. Usually pretty even games. In fact I think my sophomore year may have involved the 100th game between the schools..
Since you guys started recruiting we don't even schedule you anymore.
. . .just kidding.
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Discussion Topic: End of an era?
Pat Costilow added to this discussion on January 24, 2009
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Quote from Roe Fox's post:
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"Pat:
Western Reserve Academy. City boy who got a scholarship. I'm sure you could have guessed that given your apparent connection to U.S. Times sure change. When I went you guys were our last game in football every year. Usually pretty even games. In fact I think my sophomore year may have involved the 100th game between the schools..
Since you guys started recruiting we don't even schedule you anymore.
. . .just kidding."
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Gotcha. As far as the recruiting goes, let me just say that my senior year, WRA beat us something like 13-1 in lacrosse on the strength of a Canadian goaltender and an attackman from Virginia. Haha, but seriously, that is a great school. I have had nothing but respect for the place. I thought it was a shame that my senior year, we stopped playing Reserve in football (I think it was my senior year). It was sad to me to see that rivalry with such a history end.
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Discussion Topic: End of an era?
Bill Splete added to this discussion on January 25, 2009
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When I started in High School in the mid 80's St. Ed's was in there hey day. They were the measure of success. If you beat a guy from St. Ed's you could bet you had a place in the state tournemant. WOW! it's been almost 20 years since I graduated and that hasn't really changed. I would like to thank them for setting the bar, and so high that no school will achieve there dominance over the same period. It gave ohio the toughest state name and Walsh, St. Paris Graham, Wadsworth, Perry someone to chase. For the record, Mr. Urbas is a graduate of St.Joseph High School and we are very proud of what he represents as a mentor, we should all aspire to be as great off the mat. He is a humble man, always having time for you. He is another reason that I am proud to have been a viking. By the way I believe St. Joseph is the last school east of cleveland to win a D1 State title. That meant alot to us, and you had to go through St. Ed's to get it, and that won't change this year either.
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Discussion Topic: End of an era?
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on January 25, 2009
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I sure hope not. I made a $20 bet with a former wrestler of mine back in 2002 that they would win the next 10 state titles (through the 2011 season). I think next season will be their biggest challenge as I think they still win this years tourney by 20+ points.
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Discussion Topic: End of an era?
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on January 26, 2009
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Gary: You're correct that I intended no disrespect to Maple. Jamie has always been one of the shrewdest and most considerate coaches in the state. But I admit to being vexed as to why they're content to wrestle in mediocre tournaments rather than wrestle at Brecksville, Medina or Top Gun.
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Discussion Topic: End of an era?
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on January 26, 2009
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"Gary: You're correct that I intended no disrespect to Maple. Jamie has always been one of the shrewdest and most considerate coaches in the state. But I admit to being vexed as to why they're content to wrestle in mediocre tournaments rather than wrestle at Brecksville, Medina or Top Gun."
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Hank, funny you said that. I was just having that talk last night with my son. We have been trying to figure out if Mines will go 103 or 112 at the LELs, and I mentioned to him that Korey was at 112 in a tourney this weekend. He asked why Maple, while they do very well, seems to go to the smaller tourneys most weekends.
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Discussion Topic: End of an era?
Pat Costilow added to this discussion on January 26, 2009
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Quote from Brady Hiatt's post:
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"I sure hope not. I made a $20 bet with a former wrestler of mine back in 2002 that they would win the next 10 state titles (through the 2011 season). I think next season will be their biggest challenge as I think they still win this years tourney by 20+ points."
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This year is one thing, but you will be in trouble next year. Wadsworth will be absolutely loaded, and I think Tavanello and Buzzelli will march to titles. The only opposition I see to that being if Cody Lamberg moves to 215, which I doubt. Add the two Squires to that, Nate Ball, Alfredo Grey, Busson, Randolph, Jones, Wenger, and Bradenburg, and you have nasty team. Although that will depend on how Ed's very strong freshman class develops.
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