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Discussion Topic: Taylor bumping up to 140 to take on Palmer
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on January 20, 2009
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Taylor will be wrestling 140 this coming Saturday at the Tri with Ed's and Troy Christian. -- long day for defending state champ Zac Hancock. Taylor, Palmer, Hancock. Has there been a tough weight at a tri?
What is everybody's take on this potential match?
I think this is great for wrestling. I appreciated Schlatter doing this (going up two weights) to take on Miller in consecutive years. This type of move is so rare which is what makes it so exciting. My team will be at the Hammer and Anvil tourney so I'm very hopeful (and pretty confident) that it will appear later that day on flowrestling or youtube.
Conventional wisdom would say that Palmer has a slight edge due just to his (apparent) large strength advantage -- but that is something that Taylor has been overcoming his entire career.
I'd love to see David win as I'm from the area and know him a little better but this is really a tough call.
So, I'll go with Taylor by two.
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Discussion Topic: Taylor bumping up to 140 to take on Palmer
Dan Ransick added to this discussion on January 20, 2009
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Taylor bumping up shows that he wants to wrestle the best wrestlers anywhere and at anytime. I think Taylor should take this one in what is the most anticipated matchup in Ohio for many years.
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Discussion Topic: Taylor bumping up to 140 to take on Palmer
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on January 21, 2009
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Meeting of top-ranked U.S. wrestlers could happen Saturday in St. Paris
By Eric Frantz, Managing Editor
efrantz@bucknuts.com
Posted Jan 20, 2009
You remember those movies growing up as a kid that pitted Godzilla against King Kong? A meeting like that might actually take place Saturday in St. Paris. Two of the country’s top wrestlers could square off. According to the Graham wrestling website senior David Taylor will bump up a weight class to tackle Lakewood St. Edward senior Collin Palmer (Palmer is projected at 140 for St. Ed). We can only hope.
In bright green letters on the Graham website it says “YES - THERE MAY BE A MATCH BETWEEN DAVID TAYLOR AND COLLIN PALMER. Taylor will be wrestling 140.”
Taylor has a career record of 125-2 and is ranked No. 1 in the country at 135 pounds by Amateur Wrestling News and Wrestling USA Magazine. He hasn't lost since falling to St. Ed's Jamie Clark as a sophomore. A three-time state champion and Iowa State recruit, Taylor is the only wrestler EVER to win four individual titles at the prestigious Walsh Ironman Invitational.
Palmer, also a three-time state champion, is ranked No. 1 in the country at 140 by Wrestling USA and No. 2 by AWN. He has never lost to an Ohio opponent. He’s headed to Ohio State.
Taylor and Palmer have never met before.
The tri-meet, which also includes Troy Christian, features all three defending state champions. St. Ed has won 12 straight D-I state titles, while Graham has won eight straight D-II titles. Troy Christian has won two straight D-III championships.
Wrestling starts with Troy Christian-Graham at 11 a.m. followed by TC-St. Edward (12:30 p.m.) and Graham-St. Edward (2 p.m.).
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Discussion Topic: Taylor bumping up to 140 to take on Palmer
Roe Fox added to this discussion on January 21, 2009
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Kudos to all three teams for wrestling each other. No ducking with them.
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Discussion Topic: Taylor bumping up to 140 to take on Palmer
Chue Vue added to this discussion on January 21, 2009
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Will this tri be posted on a website like FloWrestling or Youtube for viewers who can't make it to the match to watch? Taylor bumping up to 140 to take on Palmer would be a "dream" match of champions that I'd love to watch! I will also say that Taylor-Hancock and Palmer-Hancock are just an added bonus...=D
My views on the match Taylor-Palmer match are mixed as I see two great wrestlers that both have their own advantages against each other...so I'll go out on a limb and say 4-3 Taylor.
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Discussion Topic: Taylor bumping up to 140 to take on Palmer
Anthony Windsor II added to this discussion on January 21, 2009
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Quote from Chue Vue's post:
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"Will this tri be posted on a website like FloWrestling or Youtube for viewers who can't make it to the match to watch? Taylor bumping up to 140 to take on Palmer would be a "dream" match of champions that I'd love to watch! I will also say that Taylor-Hancock and Palmer-Hancock are just an added bonus...=D
"
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That's what I'm saying...
I have got to see this one...
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Discussion Topic: Taylor bumping up to 140 to take on Palmer
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on January 21, 2009
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Discussion Topic: Taylor bumping up to 140 to take on Palmer
Robert Lambert added to this discussion on January 22, 2009
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Discussion Topic: Taylor bumping up to 140 to take on Palmer
Pat Costilow added to this discussion on January 24, 2009
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Quote from Mark Niemann's post:
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"Stones... Period."
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Indeed.... respect
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Discussion Topic: Taylor bumping up to 140 to take on Palmer
Mike Hojnacki added to this discussion on January 24, 2009
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Taylor wins 8-5 with a tilt at the end
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Discussion Topic: Taylor bumping up to 140 to take on Palmer
Chue Vue added to this discussion on January 24, 2009
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That match, in all its entirety, was epic. Two senior wrestlers in my opinion, are the best in the country at their respective weights, clashing together for history! It was great to see them coming together to see who the best wrestler in the state and/or country was. The quick take-down by Palmer was a bit of a surprise, but the match went down like most would have thought. Superb sportsmanship by both wrestlers as they interviewed with Flo afterwards on their thoughts of the match.
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Discussion Topic: Taylor bumping up to 140 to take on Palmer
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on January 25, 2009
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It was great to see these guys make this match happen. Both of them need these types of matches as they transition to their next phases of wrestling.
Collin was certainly pumped up to start the match. He had that nice quick takedown and was able to control the first half of the match. Through the first half of the match, I think he was able to control the match not only with his skills, but his strength. He was gassed the second half of the match. David was patient and waited for his opportunities. Once he had his openings later in the match, he certainly capitalized.
There were no losers in this match.
Collin has to work on his conditioning. Next year, he will be wrestling full matches every time. Collin has to start transitioning his skills to the college level (just like his brother did). As he saw last night, he will not be able to throw in the boots and work the power half very often in the Big 10. Even though David was a little under sized (not much though), he was not going to let Collin control him with the boots. No good college wrestler will either. Lance transitioned well, and I suspect it will be no different for Collin. Collin certainly has a great college coach that will have him prepared. I can't wait to see him in Columbus the next few years!
I appreciated how patient David was. It will be fun to see how he matures physically over the next couple of years. I'm not sure if it will matter, we have seen many NCAA champs that were not muscle bound. His skills are great and Jeff has been preparing him to be a college wrestler for the past 4 years. It will be great to see how Cale further develops this kid. I don't know if anyone will ever have a college career like Cale Sanders again, but David Taylor should have a fine collegiate showing. I wish he were going to be in Columbus, but we can all enjoy him from afar!
Thanks guys! You gave us a match to enjoy & remember and you will both be better for it! <thumbsup>
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Discussion Topic: Taylor bumping up to 140 to take on Palmer
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on January 25, 2009
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Lance has worked boots and thrown power halves in the Big Ten with success since his true frosh season. I think you're assuming all wrestlers in D1 will have the same set of bottom skills as David Taylor and that's not true.
Collin Palmer will be a terrific college wrestler for the same reasons as Lance. He's strong, tough and good enough all around to beat a lot of guys. I wouldn't expect him to finish 4th at Nationals as a true frosh but he's ready to compete at the next level. As to his conditioning, put him in a room with Lance, Reece, Paddock, Kusar, Nemec, Jameson and others and he'll get in much better shape--fast.
David Taylor has a great build for wrestling. He uses his length extremely well from all positions. I thought that Lance could win on his feet but Taylor got 2 takedowns to 1 for Lance. Taylor's mat skills will make him very good in college as a true frosh. He'll need to find the right weight class. I think he could be 149-157 in just a year. He's growing rapidly and will gain weight as well. I think he could be a 4x AA and possibly win at least two national titles.
I don't think he's quite as adept for D1 as Dustin was when he arrived. Dustin was the best technician I've ever seen as a true frosh and a true master of controlling all positions. Taylor's length makes him more of a scrambler/counter type wrestler. But I think that as he masters these skills, he's going to be incredible both on his feet and on top.
Kind of an odd match actually. In college, it's really difficult to score when top guys meet because of their ability to counter. All three takedowns in this bout looked almost like football tackles. I think it was a fantastic bout but that they would have a different kind of match in a tournament setting.
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Discussion Topic: Taylor bumping up to 140 to take on Palmer
Pat Costilow added to this discussion on January 25, 2009
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Is this Patrick Campbell the same Patrick Campbell of Wadsworth Foot & Ankle? If so, thank you for your support of the radio show.
Do we think Taylor stays at 140 for state? If Matt Stephens can hold 135 comfortably, he might have a better shot at a state title there than at 140. At 140, however, Taylor smokes Hightower, who just pinned Stephens. Does Stephens beat Miller, though?
As far as collegiate prospects go, Taylor is just so refined. His technique is perfect. Palmer lamented to us when he was in studio that there is nobody in the room to push him right now, and I wonder if he hasn't become somewhat complacent. He talked about going down to OSU and wrestling Jaggers, and how awesome it was. I have to think some focus and spark will come back next year when he is pushed.
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Discussion Topic: Taylor bumping up to 140 to take on Palmer
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on January 25, 2009
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"Lance has worked boots and thrown power halves in the Big Ten with success since his true frosh season. I think you're assuming all wrestlers in D1 will have the same set of bottom skills as David Taylor and that's not true.
Collin Palmer will be a terrific college wrestler for the same reasons as Lance. He's strong, tough and good enough all around to beat a lot of guys. I wouldn't expect him to finish 4th at Nationals as a true frosh but he's ready to compete at the next level. As to his conditioning, put him in a room with Lance, Reece, Paddock, Kusar, Nemec, Jameson and others and he'll get in much better shape--fast."
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Hank, I'm not saying Collin will never have success at the collegiate level throwing in the boots and using the power half. I am saying that neither Lance or Collin will dominate the Big 10 or Nationally with the boots and power half. I was very successful with this in HS as well, but found it much more difficult to maintain control on top day in and day out at the college level (of course Randy would tell you that is because I was never on top and mostly on my back..HaHa). I experienced and have observed, by & large, most college wrestlers are pretty good on bottom and pretty good at countering the boots. It's much easier to throw in the boots on a wrestler that you are physically dominating. Even early in the match yesterday when Collin was a little more physically dominant, he was not very successful gaining his normal results by throwing in the boots. Taylor countered pretty much every time. Just looking at Taylor (if you did not know his resume), you might suspect Collin could physically dominate him. Taylor's technique certainly overcame this. That being said, Lance and Collin are both physical enough to have some success with the boots at the college level.
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"David Taylor has a great build for wrestling. He uses his length extremely well from all positions. I thought that Lance could win on his feet but Taylor got 2 takedowns to 1 for Lance. Taylor's mat skills will make him very good in college as a true frosh. He'll need to find the right weight class. I think he could be 149-157 in just a year. He's growing rapidly and will gain weight as well. I think he could be a 4x AA and possibly win at least two national titles."
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It's so hard to say what kind of success either of them will have in the future. The level of talent in division 1 is outstanding right now and the next great wrestler seems to show up every year. There are so many factors to look at. I'm sure, all things being equal, both of these guys have great careers ahead and will hopefully represent us at the international level someday.
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"I don't think he's quite as adept for D1 as Dustin was when he arrived. Dustin was the best technician I've ever seen as a true frosh and a true master of controlling all positions. Taylor's length makes him more of a scrambler/counter type wrestler. But I think that as he masters these skills, he's going to be incredible both on his feet and on top."
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I agree that Dustin looked fantastic as a freshman. He was certainly more physical than what we expect David to be. I'm not sure that I can separate them based on technique in my mind. They are physically so different, but trained in the same system in St. Paris. Let's discuss this in the spring of 2010.
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