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Discussion Topic: Ohio State v. Minnesota
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on February 1, 2009
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141: #8 Mike Thorn (Minnesota) dec. #12 J Jaggers (Ohio State) 6-4
- I don't know if it is the weight or what, but were only seeing glimpses of what made Jaggers a National Champ last year. I thought he controlled the first two periods well, then he kind of fell apart. He has been getting to high on top when trying to ride legs. I don't like to see that kind of poor positioning from a national champ. I do have to believe he will yet get it together when it counts.
149: #4 Lance Palmer (Ohio State) dec. Joe Grygelko (Minnesota) 7-0
- Lance continues to be hostile on the mat. Not much to say, his work speaks for itself.
157: #14 Tyler Safratowich (Minnesota) dec. Sean Nemec (Ohio State) 8-5
- As J.D. commented, the results of Nemec versus these last two opponenets have not been much different than Johnstone's, but it's good to see how Nemec is devoloping. I kind of forgot what a physical beast he is. I loved the escape he had at the end of the 2nd. I have no comment on who should start the rest of the season, but Nemec should be a beast going forward.
165: #2 Colt Sponseller (Ohio State) md. #16 Scott Glasser (Minnesota) 12-4
- Although Colt likes to kick people out a lot, I agree that his skills on top have greatly improved. I really believe that pound for pound, Colt is becoming one of the most balanced wrestlers in the country.
174: Dave Rella (Ohio State) md. Matt Everson (Minnesota) 12-5
- I did not get to see Dave wrestle much while he was at Penn State. I have been very impressed with both of his wins this weekend. Today he was very impressive. Coach Ryan is taking this young man to the next level. I hope this is a turning point for Dave transitioning from a good wrestler to a top-level wrestler.
184: #2 Mike Pucillo (Ohio State) tf. Sonny Yohn (Minnesota) 21-4
- Stud!
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State v. Minnesota
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on February 1, 2009
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197: Gordon Bierschenk (Minnesota) dec. Cody Gardner (Ohio State) 5-2
- I'm just kinda bummed about Gardner's performance over the weekend. I know he is a better wrestler that what he is showing. He is not finishing anything well. Seems like he has no intensity right now. I wonder if it is kind of like Weakley last year? It's a big transition to this level of wrestling. Even bigger when you're used to dominating and now you're having trouble making anything work for you. He has the skills. I just think he needs to start believing he can control matches and make these things work.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State v. Minnesota
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on February 1, 2009
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285: #18 Ben Berhow (Minnesota) dec. #17 Corey Morrison, 6-2
- I don't like the way Corey has wrestled this weekend. He has looked good at times this year, but has been just plain flat this weekend. I'm no expert on moving heavyweight wrestlers along. I do know we have been pretty spoiled in watching very successful wreslters at this weight for a while. We need a lot more out of the these last 2 weight classes to make that next move towards a team national championship.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State v. Minnesota
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on February 1, 2009
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125: #5 Zach Sanders (Minnesota) dec. Nikko Triggas (Ohio State), 13-7
- Triggas had that nice takedown in the first, but then gave it right back. He really got out-wrestled today, but I do appreciate that he did not quit wrestling. I still believe this young man will be a top-level wrestler over the next two years.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State v. Minnesota
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 1, 2009
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J.D. just summed it up -- Minnesota wrestled harder.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State v. Minnesota
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on February 1, 2009
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133: #5 Jayson Ness (Minnesota) dec. #1 Reece Humphrey, 5-0
- It's great to watch two top-level wrestlers. Humphrey has really taken that next step over the past year. I was surprised to see him get down 4-0. Ness did a nice job finishing his takedown and riding him out. I don't think this will be a significant setback for Humphrey.
The Bucks expected better performances out of Jaggers and Humphrey and needed better performances from Gardner and Morrison. I'm sure coach Ryan is not happy with this loss, but there will be better days.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State v. Minnesota
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on February 1, 2009
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its a bad loss anyway u look at it, and at home--- too
Joe Russell
, U of MN asst coach & chief recruiter, was at the St Eds Quad Saturday with # 1 Blair and # 7 Wyoming Seminary.
theres a reason U of MN has won 3 NCAA team titles in the last 7 or 8 years.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State v. Minnesota
Rex Holman added to this discussion on February 1, 2009
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Let me guess
No OSU representation at the duel
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State v. Minnesota
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on February 1, 2009
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Rex,
i cant say for sure but if there was, i didnt see one and he didnt say hello to me, so i don't know--- but i do know Joe Russell of U of MN made it a point to come down and say hello and to say hello to the st Eds and Blair head coaches.
there was serious talent there, mostly JUNIORS:
...AWN # 1 at 130 a junior Villalonga from Blair.
...AWN # 2 Silver from Bair was beaten by st Eds junior state camp Sako.
...Two studs from Wy Sem and Blair were both soundly beaten by st Eds junior 135 Salupo.
...a blind man could see that st Eds 9th grader Greg Kuhar could well be Ohio's next supergreat 285.
...AWN # 2 a junior at 189 Max Huntley was there, as was his Marine Corps infantry father, Colonel Pete Huntley who arrived back
from yet another
Iraq tour of duty the day before. ( i been saying hes a junior, Huntley is an unsigned Senior apparently. Blair messes with this info, because they apparently set Huntley BACK a year, they call him a junior but he is a 4th year hs wrestler from my records. )
...AWN # 2 at 119 another junior Jamie Clark was out sick.
...AWN # 2 at 103 freshmen Mark Grey, fargo cadet national champ both styles.
...Wy Sem has an outstanding junior 285, Mike McMullan, 235 and rock hard.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State v. Minnesota
Rex Holman added to this discussion on February 1, 2009
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Bob-
Sounds like a talent pool inclusive of quite a few multiple time NCAA AAs or better.
Rex
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State v. Minnesota
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on February 1, 2009
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Rex,
oh yes, everyone wants the top Blair & st Eds kids, occasionally a couple wont work out, get burned out usually being the reason--- Great Great high school programs, st Eds has been The best in the USA over a 30 year period, and Blair over the last 14 or so.
Kids who sign on for these programs know what the deal is. Wyoming Seminary PA, another prep school was there, ranked # 7 by AWN, they have talent too and also a brutal schedule.
some fans were joking why was Columbus DeSales there to complete the Quad, my hats off to them though--- but i don't know if they knew what they were getting into, new coach and all ?
i joked to Galbincea of the PD, DeSales was invited so st Eds wouldnt lose 3 duals on the day, as it was st Ed lost 2 duals for the first time since 1973.
i personally don't think st Eds wins state this year, although most think they still will, but im not kicking them, i saw young talent --- and i saw them wrestle very hard vs Blair, and the Blair coach said st Eds out fought them. The Wy Sem coach told me he was honored to be in their gym where so much history has transpired.
but Blair is on another level over the last 8 years or so, another level-- they teach a college style with the handfighting, tieups and the Turk & armbar on top--- and those kids are ready to wrestle in college right away. ALSO u have to be a student or they kick u out of school.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State v. Minnesota
Rex Holman added to this discussion on February 1, 2009
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Bob-
You would be on my speed dial if I had a question about quality high school wrestling recruits. Winning an NCAA Championship starts with recruiting. College football probably does this better than anyone as they have the best resources and money available.
As always there are no sure things, but the likelihood of winning greatly improves with the greater percentage of bluechips at your institution.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State v. Minnesota
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 2, 2009
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Blair's the best because they have the best talent coming in. For Ohio State to win a national title, they'll need to do the same thing. Here are the issues as I see it:
Coach Ryan has recruited reasonably well since arriving at Ohio State but had gaps to fill when he arrived. 125 was empty so they got Triggas; 197 was a vacuum so they got Weakley and Gardner. 157 and 165 needed shoring up so they pumped up Johnstone, and added Nemec and Sponseller. The swings and misses have been Taylor, Oliver, Roddy and Meade. Can't get them all. Taylor and Oliver would have been huge.
Also, prior to Ryan's arrival the Bucks had added Humphrey, Jaggers, Johnstone and Palmer over a 3 year period. Three of those guys are probably 149 pounders while the fourth should be a 141. They've had to spread out those four over four wt classes with mixed results.
At some point Coach Ryan needs to take a step or two backward to move forward. They may need to conserve scholarship money and wrestle the back-ups in order to put together a few recruiting classes that feature #1 talents. Plus, they have to consider redshirting kids even if it makes the lineup weaker for a year. The Jordan Olivers and Colt Sponseller's will win you national titles if you can get several of them over a few years. Easier said than done as it requires a successful approach to talent evaluation.
Logan Stieber is a #1 talent. Can Ohio State add two more guys to his class with close to his potential? Think The Altons or along those lines. Will the money be available at that time?
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State v. Minnesota
Rex Holman added to this discussion on February 2, 2009
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Hank-
Excellent review.
Bob-
Do you see the price of a catholic school education as a deterrent to building a dynasty more nowadays than 20 years ago. The reason I ask is that I happened to be sitting next to Marty Collins at the Kent State v OSU meet. He told me tuition when he was at St Ignatius was $1500 and today it is $12000.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State v. Minnesota
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on February 2, 2009
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Hank,
one very BIG miss u overlooked, Jamie Clark of st Eds
, he is a 4 year 125, ranked # 2 in nation as a junior by AWN, verbaled to Iowa St. U don't need Clark only if u think Logan Stieber gonna be a 125 and i don't think he will, he is 125 now as a junior and a thick upper body.
Ryan was close 2nd for Jordan Oliver-- and maybe Taylor too--- so he is doing the right things. If u go after the BIGGEST prizes u gonna come up empty often. Its not a safe strategy.
Ohio st used to mainly go after kids they knew wanted to be Buckeyes
, now its a bit different, now more going after out of state studs that the Iowa states and Oklahoma states want also..... Altons i don't think will escape Penn States grasp. Ohio st has spent money on middlewts already anyway.
getting Paddock from NY is bigger than Ohio st fans realize,
ranked # 2 now by AWN at 130, i
think he starts for Ohio st next season at 133
. And there will be some significant redshirts next season i think.
Rex,
good question abouty Catholic/private school education, eps in this economic climate. I hear st Eds enrollment is Not down though, and that surprised me, but it could be next year for sure. St Ignatius is a school that attracts generations, the school is over 100 years old, i think they survive pretty much as is regardless-- 10 Div I state football titles in Ohio since 1988 helps.
But u r right, the Blair's of the world have to feel the effects of spiraling costs and a poor economy, i think Blair has alot of Wall st/banker types sending their kids there. $40,000 a year to board at Blair, btw, and 3/4 of their students do board there.
Bottom line though: the Palmers and Jamie Clarks and Pucillo's and Jaggers of the world, RIGHT NOW they want to wrestle for certain Catholic schools that have great tradition and great schedules. These dynasties will keep on attracting these type kids, SO FAR.
But yes the Catholic/privates will lose some to the newcomer public powers like Wadsworth and Brecksville and Massillon Perry. -----i agree theres gonna be an "evening out" process, esp if a public like Wadsworth or Mass Perry beats st Eds for state this season. .
Dynasties nowadays are Not just private/Catholic schools though,
the trend is for parents to move their kids to Apple Valley MN, Iowa City West Iowa, Eastern Regional NJ, Christiansburg VA, Easton PA and Brandon Florida because of the
coaching, the SCHEDULE, the limelight and the other kids in the room to train with
.
so imo public dynasties can occur in Ohio too, like they have in other states-- i expect it. BTW, could be quite a few years before st Eds is a top 5 national team again, imo.
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