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Discussion Topic: How Does This Happen?
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 12, 2009
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1996 a very long time ago, different coaching staff, has been plenty of time to change things in Athens Ohio.
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Discussion Topic: How Does This Happen?
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on March 12, 2009
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Good, and accurate, discussion.
OU... What can you say. The MAC tournament was a meltdown. I am an OU fan and defend them often, but that performance is impossible to defend.
Entering the season, I saw Keyes, Lindsey, Reedy, Tucker, Weinkam, Ison, and Schuth as POSSIBLE NQ's, and none of them make it.
Admittedly, the injuries this year were unreal. Reedy - out for the year after finishing 3rd at the WV Open. Ison - missed the MAC, I believe his RPI was 12... He would have been almost a sure fire NQ. Weinkam - battled a very tough injury all year and missed the MAC. He was a probable finalist, and I thought he would be in line for a WC with a second place MAC finish.
When I saw those brackets, and Weinkam and Ison out, I thought... "At LEAST Schuth will get 2nd or 3rd and earn a birth, and Lindsey will place 3rd and get a WC..." Schuth was 0-2, and Lindsey finished 4th.
Schuth was a mystery. He coaches ranking I think was 25th and he had several wins against RPI top 25 wrestlers.
That said, they still underperformed. Next year will have to be the year. I agree that in a state ripe with wrestling talent, you need to be sending guys to the nationals EVERY season.
I am by no means a CSU expert, but it's hard to compare these two. OU was at least competitive in duals, just flopped when it mattered most.
Still, having said all of that, I see a solid team stepping on the mat next season if they can stay healthy.
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Discussion Topic: How Does This Happen?
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 12, 2009
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Ethan: I'm glad you weighed in. You've always been my go-to guy for OU discussion and better perspective. I think we're like minded on this subject. In fairness, the whole MAC was down this year with the exception of Kent and CMU. It's important for the entire conference for all these schools to rebound.
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Discussion Topic: How Does This Happen?
Luke Moore added to this discussion on March 12, 2009
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Well, being an alum and having wrestled for Joel, I cannot sit idly by and let the bashing continue without a reply. He did wonders for me in my time at OU. He was a great coach and mentor and still is to this day. He would be the first to say that the tourney was rough (to say the least), but their year was not completely unseccessful. They did show a lot of improvement from a year ago going 3-2 in the MAC.
In the past few years, they have fallen on some hard times and have cleaned house to get rid of some dead weight. That being said, they had 0 seniors on the team this year and will return a lineup next year that is pretty impressive.
I know that injuries happen but the amount OU suffered this year was beyond compare, and we all know what a few injuries can do to a team. This is their lineup and what could have been.
125- Silvers- true freshman who had to fill in but will continue to improve
133- Keyes- had a decent year but in the toughest weight in the conference
141- Lindsey- tore a pelvic muscle off the bone and had to wrestle with it all year. All things considered, not a bad finish for him.
139- Morton- did a good job filling in but should be Reedy in the future who had an injury that could not be wrestled on.
157- Tucker- MAC finalist- has shown a lot improvement in the past couple of years and will have a good senior season
165- Weinkam- will have surgery in the spring, watched him wrestle and he was obviously in pain. Sometimes you have to consider health of a kid before the team, and Joel had to do it with Tommy.
174- Ison/Purdue- both tough, Ison pulled a hamstring off the bone 2 weeks before MACs, a freak injury which cannot be avoided
184- Shuth- had a great year, bad MAC tourney
197- Iamarino- solid kid but was not the best at that weight. Iowa recruit was "homesick"- sometimes cannot be avoided
285- Powell/Hartshorn- both will get better. The varsity guy got a concussion twice this year and had to sit out the tourney
In all, from that list, I have 5 freshmen, 4 sophomores and 1 junior who wrestled at the MAC tourney, and a lot of the time it was not the best guy at that weight.
I know it has been "next year" for a while but thay are going in the right direction. Reedy and Ison will be back, Weinkam, Lindsey will get healthy. Lang and Johnson will help a ton. I will back the Bobcats in every situation and I think it will be WAY better next year.
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Discussion Topic: How Does This Happen?
Luke Moore added to this discussion on March 12, 2009
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By the way- I know no one was "bashing", I think we just all care about Ohio wrestling. And I get touchy talking about my beloved Bobcats.
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Discussion Topic: How Does This Happen?
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 13, 2009
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Did Wrage leave? He showed a lot of potential.
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Discussion Topic: How Does This Happen?
Mike Taylor added to this discussion on March 13, 2009
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Quote from Luke Moore's post:
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"By the way- I know no one was "bashing", I think we just all care about Ohio wrestling. And I get touchy talking about my beloved Bobcats."
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It would be a real sign of trouble if you weren't. Good to have you weighing in on the subject seeing as how you have some very good insight to the program that many of us do not. It's nice to have guys like you, Rex, and Joe on here providing first hand knowledge of many of these topics.
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Discussion Topic: How Does This Happen?
Tim Courtad added to this discussion on March 13, 2009
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This is my first post on this site. I do regularly check this forum for good insight though. I am a alumni and Greenlee's first recruit at Ohio U. I have been talking to Coach Greenlee a lot this week. I have been hearing this next year stuff also for the last couple of years. What I can say is next year this team is going to be good. They have a ton of talent in that room. I have seen it first hand. They were young this year with no leadership to get them thru the long grueling wrestling season. With the addition of Johnson and Lang from brecksville, and the graduation of alot of talent in the MAC. I see OU back in the top two in the MAC next year. That sounds good, but OU has the most history in the MAC with lots of All Americans and top ten national performances. We don't want to be second in the MAC, we want to be back in the top ten in the country. With all of the talent in Ohio high Schools, there is no reason, OU, Kent, and Ohio State can't stay in the top 20 every year, with good years finishing in the top ten. OU will be firing on all cylinders next year.
We are going to do alot of fundraising this off season. OU is currently getting ready for a new locker room facility and upgrades to wrestling room, making their facilities at the top of any team in the country. OU just recently cut three mens sports. OU is now at the minimum number of sports to be in Division 1. So the wrestling team is secure from being dropped and is finally getting the funding from the university to keep up with the other wrestling programs in division 1. I can't wait to get started next year with a hungry OU team ready to get back on the national scene.
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Discussion Topic: How Does This Happen?
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 13, 2009
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Tim C,
good points, we all hope ur right.
C Mich has been a national power since the late 90s--- and Kent St obviously on the upmove bigtime the last few years. Those 2 powers are not going away, we hope OU can join them but as yet we don't know.
i first met Borrelli at NCAAs in Cleveland in 1998 when C Mich burst on the scene with a top 5 placement. Since then they've ruled the MAC,
sometimes having as many as 8, or even 9, champs
at the MAC tourn, unreal !!
Ironically i met Joel Greenlee there too, he had TWO NCAA finalists, one a champ !!!!
i always liked Joel.
Andrassy i talked to at length before he got the Kent job, whenever that was maybe 6 or 7 years ago, i was impressed then with his vision and drive and i thought
things would be bright for Kent under Andrassy. The man has that X factor, like Borrelli, imo.
Until a program actually does it, its just hope. Fact is All Ohio Div I programs should be strong, we cant afford to lose any more.
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Discussion Topic: How Does This Happen?
Mike Taylor added to this discussion on March 13, 2009
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Bob,
Your last statement that all DI programs need to be strong got me thinking. How much of a role does the high school coach play on the health of the college program? Let me explain my thought/question.
When I wrestled at Dover, my bro and I would frequently travel up to Perry HS during the summer to join in on their open mat times. We were welcomed with open arms by Coach Dave Riggs. I learned during this period how involved he was in the promotion of his wrestlers to the various college programs nearby. Obviously, college coaches can't scout every talented prospect in the state. There are plenty of talented individuals who perhaps didn't garner the recognition of many coaches as they were not wrestling on the final Saturday of the season. Additionally, they probably wouldn't crack the lineup at OSU or most Big Ten school but w/ the right coaching could develop into very solid wrestlers and (if nothing else) at least provide some much needed depth to these other Ohio schools.
What is your take on the role high school coaches in Ohio play in keeping the wrestling programs at the college level in Ohio strong?
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Discussion Topic: How Does This Happen?
Luke Moore added to this discussion on March 13, 2009
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Just for the record, OU won the MAC in 2001, the only team to beat CMU in the past decade.
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Discussion Topic: How Does This Happen?
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 13, 2009
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"What is your take on the role high school coaches in Ohio play in keeping the wrestling programs at the college level in Ohio strong?"
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Mike,
well first off
Dave Riggs
is an elite hs coach in Ohio as u know i am sure, college coaches respect his words.
BUT if strength of colleges depended directly on strength of high school coaching, then NO state would have better college wrestling than Ohio. NO ONE, imo.
WHY do i say that ?
for one thing coach Greenlee himself told me many years ago how amazed he was, coming to Ohio, at the level of high school coaching in this state.
Amazed he said !!
and this was from a guy born & bred in Iowa.
where Ohio has failed re college wrestling is dropping so many programs. If theres only a few programs giving wrestling scholarships, great high school coaching aint going to help much, the kids are going to leave our state. Or become discouraged from wrestling.
i blame every major college in Ohio for this situation.
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Discussion Topic: How Does This Happen?
Mike Taylor added to this discussion on March 13, 2009
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Quote from Bob Preusse's post:
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""What is your take on the role high school coaches in Ohio play in keeping the wrestling programs at the college level in Ohio strong?"
-----------------------------------------
Mike,
well first off
Dave Riggs
is an elite hs coach in Ohio as u know I am sure, college coaches respect his words.
BUT if strength of colleges depended directly on strength of high school coaching, then NO state would have better college wrestling than Ohio. NO ONE, imo.
WHY do I say that ?
for one thing coach Greenlee himself told me many years ago how amazed he was, coming to Ohio, at the level of high school coaching in this state.
Amazed he said !!
and this was from a guy born & bred in Iowa.
where Ohio has failed re college wrestling is dropping so many programs. If theres only a few programs giving wrestling scholarships, great high school coaching aint going to help much, the kids are going to leave our state. Or become discouraged from wrestling.
I blame every major college in Ohio for this situation."
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Hmmm. Very interesting. I didn't know Ohio coaching was the best. I guess when you grow up emersed in something, you expect that it is like that everywhere. To further that view, I am an assistant at a very successful program that has a great varsity and JV coaches. So, like I said, I've just come to assume it is like that everywhere. Thanks for the info.
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Discussion Topic: How Does This Happen?
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 13, 2009
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where are u coaching Mike ? what took u to Iowa ?
heres one for you, not only Greenlee---- but now i recall JIM ZALESKY telling me years ago that he thought Ohio hs coaching was better than Iowa, how bout them apples ??
the way colleges have treated wrestling in Ohio is a disgrace, people should be mad as hell.
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Discussion Topic: How Does This Happen?
Mike Taylor added to this discussion on March 13, 2009
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Quote from Bob Preusse's post:
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"where are u coaching Mike ? what took u to Iowa ?
heres one for you, not only Greenlee---- but now I recall JIM ZALESKY telling me years ago that he thought Ohio hs coaching was better than Iowa, how bout them apples ??
the way colleges have treated wrestling in Ohio is a disgrace, people should be mad as hell.
"
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I coach (volunteer) at Cedar Rapids Prairie High School. We've had such greats as Barry Davis and all the Zalesky brothers come through here. Of course, that was well before I got here. I joined the Navy back in 97 and served in the Navy Nuclear field until 07 when I moved to the only place that was offering me a job...a power plant in eastern Iowa. I tried to move back to Ohio by interviewing up at the Perry Nuclear plant, but they decided they weren't going to hire anyone at that time. Wrestling is loved out here, so I'm enjoying my time here.
As for the comment about being mad about how colleges have treated Ohio wrestling, I believe the only way to make others feel what wrestling would be like without Ohio wrestling would be to keep our wrestlers in state for college. Imagine what would happen to schools like OU, CSU, , KSU, & OSU if all Ohio's best stayed here. The rest of the nation would be sweet talking the coaches then. Unfortunately, I believe such an occurance to be nothing more than a pipe dream. One can imagine though.
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