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Discussion Topic: Wrestling: Ohio Style
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on August 11, 2009
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Discussion Topic: Wrestling: Ohio Style
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on August 11, 2009
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this all has got me thinking, i'm gonna recommend a Sportsmanship award for the Ironman-- we'll call it the Tom Brands award. (i know Tom, i like him but then again he's never been mad at me, not that i know of anyway, ha, ha!!)
Days since Michigan’s last victory over Ohio State in football: 2089
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Discussion Topic: Wrestling: Ohio Style
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on August 11, 2009
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Was the last line necessary? :(
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Discussion Topic: Wrestling: Ohio Style
Steve Lester added to this discussion on August 11, 2009
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Quote from Mike Taylor's post:
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"You are taking the actions of a university and applying them to all high schoolers in that same state."
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I most certainly did not Mr. Taylor. I said nothing about Iowa high school wrestlers or the programs that they are part of. NOTHING. That was a large assumption on your part.
This is what I have said:
"I agree that it would mostly refer to U of Iowa."
As to what other programs the use of that phrase refers to (on various message boards), you would have to ask the authors who have used it. Hint-it's generally other college programs from what I have seen.
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Quote from Mike Taylor's post:
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"but do not include the fine young men that compete at the high school level or below. It is a slap in their face and in the face of all the coaches who train them."
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Wonderful. Since I didn't include them (or slapped them in their face), now what?
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Quote from Mike Taylor's post:
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"We love to hate on the U of I (I'm right there with everyone else) partly because of their antics but partly because of their insane success."
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I repeat, do we? I don't hate U of Iowa or the Brand Bros. Never have. Hell, I find myself rooting for some of their wrestlers depending on the matchups (if Ohio isn't involved somehow).
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Discussion Topic: Wrestling: Ohio Style
Steve Lester added to this discussion on August 11, 2009
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"And I concur completely with Mike's comments about how we rooted for Brands as an American but against him as coach at Iowa."
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If you and Mike wish to hate U of Iowa, go ahead. I can't join you in feeling that way.
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"I think you've reached very far with your posts and follow up assumptions. I spent 14 years as a member of the Ohio coaching community. Almost all coaches preach sportsmanship. But it would be the height of arrogance to think this philosophy was only present in Ohio."
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What assumptions have I made, Hank. Or are you assuming some assumptions?
Ok you have won me over. It would not be good to be known for sportsmanship as a state, since other states will voceferously object. It was unfair for Junior Duals and Disney to do sportsmanship awards, since it was an insult to the non-winners, all of whom have great coaches who also emphasize sportsmanship. It was a back-handed slap into the face of all the other teams.
Obviously those event organizers (along with myself) were on the wrong page and must change our thinking forthwith.
How's that?
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Discussion Topic: Wrestling: Ohio Style
Steve Lester added to this discussion on August 11, 2009
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Quote from Gary Sommers's post:
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"Let's remember that Metcalf was far from the only one who acted inappropriately at the end of that match."
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The point was about who was sanctioned by the NCAA, in their infinite wisdom. I wasn't aware of a sanction aimed at Caldwell.
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Discussion Topic: Wrestling: Ohio Style
Steve Lester added to this discussion on August 11, 2009
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Quote from Bob Preusse's post:
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"I'm gonna recommend a Sportsmanship award for the Ironman"
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Voting by forum members, maybe?
JUST....kidding.
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Discussion Topic: Wrestling: Ohio Style
Roe Fox added to this discussion on August 11, 2009
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I didn't think this was a big point to get when Steve first posted. I agree with Steve as long as it applies to the current University of Iowa staff. They recruit a certain type of wrestler. Yes, they want guys who are well conditoned. But as most of you have pointed out, that applies to Sponseller (or, for that matter, Pucillo or Hump, in my opinion).
But they also want guys who have an "edge" to them. Slaton is a perfect example. Metcalf's recent behavior is another (whether Caldwell's backflip was stupid, two wrongs don't make a right). Also, think Metcalf when he last faced Schlatter and drove his head in the mat when he was winning and time was basically up. Why? Because you can? Murphy was well on his way, too. Same with Covington until he got booted. The shoving out of bounds, overzealous headslaps, whatever, they wrestle as if it were a fight. Great, that is there "style." They will be wonderful in MMA.
I picture many of these guys as the boys we know who live and die for Friday night sofball games after they bomb college. There is supposed to be some thinking in this sport. When Gable was in charge, they had the same intensity and gas without the idiot attitude. Gable also trained them (from what I have read) for a purpose. Beat a certain wrestler, improve a weakness, not just run 16 miles and bludgeon your opponent.
They look at the post-match handshake like someone just killed their favorite pet.
And Ohio has a similar example but different attitude. When Woody hit the Bauman kid, NO ONE I knew defended him. I was a kid, saw it live and couldn't believe it happened. And Woody left quietly because he knew it was wrong. Think about the way Knight fought for his job and the way Woody left. Doesn't mean we can't appreciate his work as a whole and all the good he did, particularly for african-american players. But most lost a lot of respect for him.
Compare that with Bobby Bowden who is grasping, with his school's support, for 14 wins he lost because he used ineligible kids. Why? Because he is losing ground to Paterno. Absolute idiots and a waste of taxpayer money. How many kids could get an education on those wasted legal fees?
Iowa fans forgive Brand's childish rantings and (many of) his wrestlers' lack of sportsmanship because he wins. Not big picture thinking. And if my child was a great high school wrestler I certainly would think TOSU, Northwestern and, yes Gary, Mee. . .Meech. . .well, you know, before I thought Iowa.
When I read Steve's "Iowa Style" post I immediately thought U of I only and only as it relates to Brands, not Gable. I know the phrase was coined under Gable but it has come to mean something else under Brands. I don't remember it being used pejoritively under Zalesky, either, by the way.
Just my perception. . .and if you were concerned I now feel better.
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Discussion Topic: Wrestling: Ohio Style
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on August 11, 2009
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Quote from Steve Lester's post:
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"The point was about who was sanctioned by the NCAA, in their infinite wisdom. I wasn't aware of a sanction aimed at Caldwell."
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Steve, you might be right, but that doesn't mean the NCAA was. They often aren't.
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Discussion Topic: Wrestling: Ohio Style
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on August 11, 2009
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Oh heck forget Bowden, just think of Coach Sweater Vest letting Barry play this year because his drug possession was "only" a misdemeanor and not a felony. Nothing like having your own standards for conduct.
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Discussion Topic: Wrestling: Ohio Style
Roe Fox added to this discussion on August 12, 2009
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Gary: I agree and used to think the same way. However, having worked extensively in the juvenile justice system for a long time I can tell you that even some of the best and brightest non-athletes go to college with a marijuana charge or something similar. It is a very different time now than even 10 years ago.
In Ohio Berry's charge would be the same level as a speeding ticket. It is what society has chosen as policy.
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Discussion Topic: Wrestling: Ohio Style
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on August 12, 2009
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If we wanted to have a really interesting discussion, we'd discuss the pervasiveness of marijuana use, what's currently going on in California and how our drug laws ought to be--as opposed to what they are. We could also spend a great deal of time talking about how these laws have led to an ever burgeoning prison population and the incredible cost to taxpayers. There...that's a start.
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Discussion Topic: Wrestling: Ohio Style
Mike Taylor added to this discussion on August 12, 2009
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Steve,
As I go back through the entire life of this thread, I can see where my interpretation of what you were saying strayed from what you actually said. So, I think I now fully understand what you were saying as it was intended.
Now, as for the hating the University of Iowa part, I can't back away from that. YOU may not hate Iowa or the Brands brothers but much of the nation does. Need proof? Every time a Hawkeye wrestler was about to lose you heard the crowd at nationals going nuts. When a Hawkeye wrestler caught a break, the crowd booed. OSU fans may have had a little more personal of a reason to dislike him after his gesture to them at the Big Tens, but what about everyone else? I am willing to say the same people who sat there and booed that program (and him when he was in college) stood up w/ excitement when he brought home gold in Atlanta. Does that speak directly about you? Clearly it does not (w/ regards to hating UofI). However, there is ample evidence that shows people boo that program not just when they act unsportsmanlike but ANY time (win or lose). There are a large number of people who want to see the king fall. They want to see some other program overtake Iowa as #1.
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Discussion Topic: Wrestling: Ohio Style
Dan Cosimi added to this discussion on August 12, 2009
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Okay, here's my $0.02...
Steve has been on the wrestling forums with us since I can remember. I can't remember very many (if any) times where he hasn't made very good points. I think maybe some have misinterpreted what he said.
It is significant that the Ohio teams won those awards and certainly they deserve praise on the forums.
Is good sportsmanship is exclusive to Ohio wrestling? No way. But I don't think that was Steve's point. I think he meant that it is starting to be a trademark that our teams have good sportsmanship at that is something to hang their and our hats on.
Do all wrestlers from Iowa have bad sportsmanship? No way. But Steve has said that he doesn't, either. I think he pointed out that those who claim to be wrestling the "Iowa style" are the ones who might be lacking sportsmanship. Your average Iowa high school wrestlers aren't going to wrestle the "Iowa style" any more your average Ohio high school wrestlers wrestle the "Jaggers style."
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Discussion Topic: Wrestling: Ohio Style
Steve Lester added to this discussion on August 12, 2009
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"If we wanted to have a really interesting discussion, we'd discuss the pervasiveness of marijuana use, what's currently going on in California and how our drug laws ought to be--as opposed to what they are. We could also spend a great deal of time talking about how these laws have led to an ever burgeoning prison population and the incredible cost to taxpayers. There...that's a start."
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Or we could try dissecting health care reform. Yikes!
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