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Discussion Topic: Big News for Buckeye Fans
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on October 8, 2009
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MR,
i do have to go to bat for SPONSELLER who was super dominant on his feet in folkstyle his senior year-- a takedown machine with another gear in the 3rd period. In WRUSA All star classic Spon destroyed a Fargo Jr Ntl runnerup. But like Nemec both need to be better on bottom to succeed at highest levels in college. Kind of reminds me of Clint Musser situation.
Re NEMEC, apparently not a popular view right now, but i am going to bat for him too. After all i saw him handle future NCAA champ Caldwell his junior year in fargo, and Scott Winston too. Nemec in a great pool and beat them all except for Adam Hall who was the champ.
Nemec a buzz saw on his feet, but impaired by the need for forearm surgeries his senior year. Nemec also had a nice Turk on top for a shorter guy. So im expecting Nemec to show some stuff still, give him a chance this is his first year as a starter.
Maybe if Nemec had started last year fans would be more optimistic about him, however Ohio st went with the senior. Doesnt mean Nemec wont produce, he has 3 years remaining.
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Discussion Topic: Big News for Buckeye Fans
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on October 8, 2009
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Bob...You don't have to sell me on Nemec. I've always been a fan. Unlike Sponseller, Nemec had a great Fargo heading into his senior year. I have always felt he was the better high school wrestler. Thier match at Medina was a little misleading with Nemec suffering from the arm issues and with him wrestling up a weight. 157 is a "weak" weight this year with many of last year's loaded class graduating. Perhaps Nemec can qualify and win some matches, maybe surprise some people.
I have also always thought that Sponseller's dominance his senior year was a bit overrated. I used to go back and forth with Justin Kerr about his assertion that Sponseller was the best 160-pounder ever. My contention was then, and remains, that Steve Luke was the best 160-pounder Ohio has ever produced. Luke wasn't nearly as dominant as Sponseller, but had a National level schedule in season and he battled guys like Jarrod King after the season was over. I think Sponseller's weight class his senior year was a perfect storm of his obvious talents combined with poor conditioning (Ryan Smith), injuries (Nemec) and guys just not being that great (Zeerip). Sponseller is a great wrestler for sure, but I have never thought his skills matched the hype of his fans. However, if he AAs this year, in that 165-pound weight class, then he'll more than prove his worth.
Regardless, I don't think either Nemec or Sponseller was the recruit that Garcia is...and I think the results will bare that out.
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Discussion Topic: Big News for Buckeye Fans
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on October 8, 2009
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"My contention was then, and remains, that Steve Luke was the best 160-pounder Ohio has ever produced. Luke wasn't nearly as dominant as Sponseller, but had a National level schedule in season and he battled guys like Jarrod King after the season was over."
MikeR,
Luke the top ohio 160 ? well i have to go with a guy names Marcus MOLLICA at 160 back in 1990: future 4X AA, 2 X NCAA champ, and maybe would have done even better if hadnt had two knee surgeries after he won his first NCAA title over another pretty good ohioan Josh Robbins of Penn St.
btw, Jarrod King beat Luke 3 of 4 in hs by my count, twice at Beast by one point each, once at Powerade again i think by one point--- then Luke won the big one when he got choice in NHSCA finals and chose down in SDOT. Both were NCAA champs. s/BobP
(King paid big dividends last March, when i picked him to win NCAAs i got a ton of points-- editor Ron Good still pizzed that the high school guy won the college contest again.)
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"Sponseller is a great wrestler for sure, but I have never thought his skills matched the hype of his fans."
MikeR,
hmmm, interesting points, but Spon did remind me of Clint Musser as a takekdown machine, u never see that at 160. Musser of course went on to NCAA finals at Penn St, losing NCAA title by one point. ----Sponseller that year did beat Nemec by more at Medina than the great Jason Welch of California did in the Ironman finals. s/BobP
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Discussion Topic: Big News for Buckeye Fans
Roe Fox added to this discussion on October 8, 2009
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"The Bucks chased Peppelman, ignored Sulzer until it was too late and were exceedingly fortunate to end up with Garcia. Coach Ryan made his own luck in this instance but there was still luck involved. I hope the Buckeyes will stay more focused on Ohio's best kids in the future. A Garcia type situation isn't likely to occur again."
I wonder about this Hank. I surmise they have money they are willing to offer at certain points for certain people. That probably ebbs and flows based on what is going on at any one time, like the big board at ESPN on draft day. Perhaps Garcia was a little more in the fold than anyone let on. Perhaps he was coming with just a little more money or under a circumstance we don't know about. I doubt they just called him up and said, "how about it, everyone else has fallen through?"
Much like with football, there has to be a little more going on as far as long range planning. Garcia seems like too big of a recruit to just fall into Ryan's lap at the last second. I would imagine Garcia and Demas may have had a little to do with the Sulzer situation as well, and he with them.
Also, with today's technology such as texting, E-mail, etc., the wrestlers probably learn what is going on with the recruting of each other, perhaps influencing how they approach a particular school.
Different world today than even a couple years ago.
Of course, I could be wrong.
What strikes me as incredible is that, at least as far as I have read, these are three great wrestlers who are also great people. Ryan is doing a good job of getting talent with character.
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Discussion Topic: Big News for Buckeye Fans
Ben Golden added to this discussion on October 8, 2009
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I hate to be the guy to say "what if," but that's exactly what I'm going to do.
This is a very good class right now. How awesome would it be if they had managed to get Kindig, too? Three top 10 guys in a very tough class and an uber-athletic sleeper in Demas...
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Discussion Topic: Big News for Buckeye Fans
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on October 8, 2009
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Roe: From yesterday's Skagit Valley Herald:
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Two weeks ago, Ohio State wasn’t on Derek Garcia’s radar.
As one of the top-ranked high school wrestlers in the country at his weight, the Sedro-Woolley three-time champion had his pick of scholarships, and the traditional powers like Oregon State and Oklahoma State were higher in his sights.
“I didn’t even consider them,” Garcia said of Ohio State.
He spoke to coach Tom Ryan online, then left for a weekend visit to Ohio State a week ago Friday. By the following Monday his mind was made up.
“It was the morals,” Garcia said. “They’re big in the Christian faith. That’s the way they carry their team, and that’s big for me. I hadn’t seen a school that worked like that, that had so much faith put into their school from both the wrestlers and the program.”
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Discussion Topic: Big News for Buckeye Fans
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on October 8, 2009
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Quote from Bob Preusse's post:
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"
MikeR,
Luke the top ohio 160 ? well I have to go with a guy names Marcus MOLLICA at 160 back in 1990: future 4X AA, 2 X NCAA champ, and maybe would have done even better if hadnt had two knee surgeries after he won his first NCAA title over another pretty good ohioan Josh Robbins of Penn St."
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Mollica was outstanding, and he would be my #2 choice. We saw Walsh every year at Hudson back then, and you just knew Mollica was special when he was giving Lee Wilson all he could handle as a 152-pound sophomore. We saw them in a dual in 1990 and it was clear Mollica had taken a huge step forward. Mollica was a junior 160-pounder. His senior season he was up at 171. I think a senior Steve Luke beats a junior Marcus Mollica.
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Discussion Topic: Big News for Buckeye Fans
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on October 8, 2009
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MR,
good point re Mollica vs Luke 160. Mollica a junior 160 but he did have the slightly better college career --
the 160 class only goes back to 1988 so we aren't comparing alot of guys.
in 1989 two good ones battled with Randleman beating forum poster Bill Splete 11-10 for the state title. Roddy Franklin of Southview was a terror at 160, as was Overholt of Walsh ----- how about Johnny McGhee, in hs was Steve Luke better than McGhee in 1996 ? i don't think so, not in folkstyle. s/BobP
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Discussion Topic: Big News for Buckeye Fans
Bill Splete added to this discussion on October 8, 2009
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Bob,
thanks for the vote, I really appreciate it, I have always said this is the pound for pound toughest guys in the state, because they combine speed and strengh and you need both to win at this weight. I wrestled with marcus a little and a bit with robbins, but i would love to drill and workout with luke, his defense, set ups and shots are really tough. There is so much I pick up watching this weight class. This would be like picking a child you love more, to many greats, I take solace in that i wrestled a couple. I could not imagine having this outlet to speak when I wrestled. I love all the post, not always the opinions, but love reading them. Great job, and Rex sounds like the smartest of them all. Honestly rex you may have to dumb it up alittle for me, but after reading it three or four times and asking my kids for help i get it and it is usually a great take. Here is a match, Rex and chris phillips, If you were there, and ever saw Rex wrestle. he dominated at the highest levels, he's my vote for toughest upper weight,
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Discussion Topic: Big News for Buckeye Fans
Rex Holman added to this discussion on October 8, 2009
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Bill-
He is ahead of me in terms of overall development at a given age as he is excellent at a lot of things, which I might have been very good at.
The thing I could tell you is that he needs a watchful eye to continue his evolution as a wrestler. He gets great coaching from Burnett but if he were in a program that emphasized strategy and tactics (like Blair), he would never have lost to Ruth. Coaching makes all the difference in the world. This is no slight on his situation, it is just the way it is. Blair is a college preparatory program in every which way.
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Discussion Topic: Big News for Buckeye Fans
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on October 8, 2009
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More great 160's...Neal Bailey, Ravenna SE...Bailey is the only reason that Matt Hamill didn't win two state titles. Hamill won three D3 national championships and is a very tough MMA guy....Also, Rick Hepp, Ryan Lange (Nordonia).
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Discussion Topic: Big News for Buckeye Fans
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on October 8, 2009
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This is an awesome conversation going here, guys! I love the perspectives. Keep it up!
I only saw one thing I could take issue with... Weakley had some personal and family issues to deal with. I get that. But that statement was followed up by, (paraphrase) ~Demas seems to come from a stable family environment~.
Really!?! Swwet Lou!?!?! Now that's funny, I don't care who you are. ( ;-) Just razzin a bit Sweet Lou.)
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Discussion Topic: Big News for Buckeye Fans
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on October 8, 2009
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Quote from Bob Preusse's post:
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"in 1989 two good ones battled with Randleman beating forum poster Bill Splete 11-10 for the state title. "
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One of the great State finals of all time. Speaking of that bout...
Bill....I don't know if you knew this, but that match is up on GOhio's vault:
http://www.gohiocasts.com.php5-4.dfw1-1.websitetestlink.com/event/main/video/id/235162-GohioCasts-Vault/vid/202136-1989-State-Finals-160-Randleman-vs.-Splete
BTW, I think your senior season match with the excellent Brett Machovina will be up there soon as well.
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"More great 160's...Neal Bailey, Ravenna SE...Bailey is the only reason that Matt Hamill didn't win two state titles. Hamill won three D3 national championships and is a very tough MMA guy....Also, Rick Hepp, Ryan Lange (Nordonia)."
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All great for sure, those along with Franklin ang McGhee and a few others are all near the top, but I still think Steve Luke was the best 160 Ohio has ever produced.
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Discussion Topic: Big News for Buckeye Fans
Bill Splete added to this discussion on October 8, 2009
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Rex,
that is what i'm talking about, great post. your point is spot on. also your being modest. there few guys that i even remeber and you one of them,
hank,
i worked out with rick hepp and the guy was tough as nails, and a real gracious guy. there's other guys on that list, that hated working out with me, not rick, he liked to play rough with a style and temperment that had a competitve mean sreak, in a good way. tough guy.
mike,
that match is tough for me to watch. not just because of the L but all the obvious mistakes i made. i think today the kids skill level is far above mine at the same time, especially in tp and bottom. they are not as physical, because they are better with more solid skills. it would be nice to see a win, my senior year went better, to tell you the truth i had a very tough semi with davis from franklin, lucky the match is 6 min not 5. it was conditioning, thanks to coach storey!
by the way i'm holding my daugther and typing, sorry for the gramar, and spelling, go easy on me rex
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Discussion Topic: Big News for Buckeye Fans
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on October 8, 2009
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Bill: I've probably said this before but your group at St Joes was a blast to watch. You, Petche, St John and Mihalic all had such style. Petche remains high on the list of the greatest never to win state.
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