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Discussion Topic: The answer to "You're the Recruiter"
Lou Demas added to this discussion on November 12, 2010
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Bob,
SPG wrestle's year round, they may not put the same emphasis on fargo As St' Ed's but they wrestle year round. I also think it is safe to the all top teams work hard. I have never heard It said a team does not work hard produces D1 AA's or they have bad coaching but work real hard and that produces D1 AA's. Nor have I heard a single coach say, wrestling Blair one time enhance your wrestler's your wrestle future success of D1 AA status. Many kids wrestle against Blair, Blair does not just go to the Ironman. What key here is what St'Ed's coaching staff does to enhance their wrestle's chance of future success!
Bob, you are an iconic figure on the landscape of Ohio wrestling, your tournament and promotion of the sport have improve Ohio wrestling but I am trying to find out what is the defining difference behind a top program and a top program that produces the most D1AA's.
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Discussion Topic: The answer to "You're the Recruiter"
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on November 12, 2010
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"Now that you have stated that privates have an advantage then yes this horse is dead." --- Come on GS, Fact is i have stated it SO MANY TIMES i was sick of repeating it !! Geeezuz.
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Lou,
the DIF? well we've given you Fargo, off season comp participation, thats one thing.
then theres Tradition, it means alot, 0ver 30 years of it.
AND with HEFFERNAN bringing alot of IOWA into the st Eds room, thats important. Heffernan has been a big key to their success in the last 20 years. Thats a good staff too, Frank Jayne was a successful head coach at Elyria. And then theres Urbas.
the key is they get kids who are not only talented as we all know, but kids who BUY INTO their program, the kids make a Commitment to excellence. s/BobP
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Discussion Topic: The answer to "You're the Recruiter"
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on November 12, 2010
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Quote from Bob Preusse's post:
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""Now that you have stated that privates have an advantage then yes this horse is dead." --- Come on GS, Fact is I have stated it SO MANY TIMES I was sick of repeating it !! Geeezuz."
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If you say you have, then fair enough. Now how many of those public schools in the top-40 have open enrollment?
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Discussion Topic: The answer to "You're the Recruiter"
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on November 13, 2010
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"open enrollment" who knows? i just rank em, thats a job in itself, its a big country.
many variables go into success: how big is the school in terms of male enrollment? how much school & community support is there? how many of the students come from solid families wiht discipline & goals? is the school located in an area where wrestling is important? How good is the coaching staff and do they have high goals for the team?
i just rank em with the best info i can get for the last 2 decades-- 49 states have high school wrestling, all but Mississippi.
i don't study the schools structure, economic, and sociological makeup. But obviously schools across the nation have different makeups, advantages, and disadvantages.
but i do know, for example, EASTON Pennylvania very well having done an interview with long time head coach Steve Powell and done a article years ago on the Easton Red Rovers.
In the Lehigh Valley there are some GREAT traditional powers, Easton, Nazareth, Northampton among them-- they don't recruit from each other and DON'T HAVE OPEN ENROLLMENT. Occasionaly they get a movein, but their teams are basically homegrown. Its all in the COACHING and the strong Youth & Jr High Programs and the TRADITION. --- These are PUBLIC schools with NO open enrollement there. s/BobP
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Discussion Topic: The answer to "You're the Recruiter"
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on November 13, 2010
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I have no doubt there are public schools who do things the right way. The traditional public school way. Where they only have students who live within the district, and predominantly have students who grew up in that district and were students in that district since Kindergarten.
My only point was that we cannot blindly point to any and all public schools as an example of that when there are some out there who are quasi-private in that they do have open enrollment.
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Discussion Topic: The answer to "You're the Recruiter"
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on November 13, 2010
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GS,
i cant let myself get hung up on this stuff like you obviously are.
we all know nothing in life is completely fair, some people and some institutions have advantages, many from birth, intelligence, talent, looks -- thats life.
I cant get all hung up on this stuff like you. I enjoy the sport, thats it. This dead horse has been beaten enough.
In the end it basically comes down to an INDIVIDUAL, what talent he has, what he does with that talent. The kid at st Eds who is a state champ had to be the best through his own efforts, just like the kid from Maple Heights or anywhere else. s/BobP
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Discussion Topic: The answer to "You're the Recruiter"
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on November 13, 2010
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No hang up involved at all. Just trying to see if you underatand that pointing at rankings and saying X number are 'publics' doesn't prove anything. Not all publics are equal, much less all high schools in general.
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Discussion Topic: The answer to "You're the Recruiter"
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on November 14, 2010
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"Just trying to see if you underatand that pointing at rankings and saying X number are 'publics' doesn't prove anything. Not all publics are equal, much less all high schools in general."
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GS,
not all publics are "equal", of course i understand that, AS DO WE ALL-- geezuz, we are not dummies-- my lord Man, don't tell us the obvious, give us insights, not what is evident to all of us. s/BobP
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Discussion Topic: The answer to "You're the Recruiter"
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on November 14, 2010
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Quote from Bob Preusse's post:
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"GS posts,"Let'a also remember that a number of Catholic school athletes attend for free as well. They are NOT all paying the sticker price to attend Eds, Iggy, Regina, etc."
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GS,
I have no firsthand knowledge on the subject, but I do know st Eds & st Ignatius and Walsh Jesuit will tell you they offer aid based on financial need.
And I DO KNOW families with state champs have told me they paid THE FULL FREIGHT at st Eds and at Walsh Jesuit and at St Ignatius. As I said I'm not on the inside so I'm not expert on the subject, but I know what ive been told.
Remember Field of Dreams? "build it and they will come". This is America, many parents have moved their kids from their home district for VARIOUS reasons.
Fact is right now in the Amateur Wrestling News preseason Prep 40: Seven, thats 7 of the top 10 schools including the top 3, and a huge majority of the Prep 40 are PUBLIC schools. www.amateurwrestlingnews.com
s/BobP"
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Your last paragraph certainly does not make it seem like it was evident to you.
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Discussion Topic: The answer to "You're the Recruiter"
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on November 14, 2010
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GS,
on this very thread, this same page, i previously posted this re PUBLIC schools--- HOW MUCH CLEARER can i be that i do recognize differences among public schools???? Verbatim, here is what i posted:
"open enrollment" who knows? I just rank em, thats a job in itself, its a big country.
many variables go into success: how big is the school in terms of male enrollment? how much school & community support is there? how many of the students come from solid families wiht discipline & goals? is the school located in an area where wrestling is important? How good is the coaching staff and do they have high goals for the team?
I just rank em with the best info I can get for the last 2 decades-- 49 states have high school wrestling, all but Mississippi.
I don't study the schools structure, economic, and sociological makeup. But obviously schools across the nation have different makeups, advantages, and disadvantages." s/BobP
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Discussion Topic: The answer to "You're the Recruiter"
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on November 14, 2010
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You got me. I give up. Illogic trumps all attempts at logic.
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Discussion Topic: The answer to "You're the Recruiter"
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on November 15, 2010
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Quote from Gary Sommers's post:
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"You got me. I give up. Illogic trumps all attempts at logic."
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...and in this discussion are you the voice of logic?
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Discussion Topic: The answer to "You're the Recruiter"
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on November 15, 2010
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"
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Quote from Gary Sommers's post:
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"You got me. I give up. Illogic trumps all attempts at logic."
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...and in this discussion are you the voice of logic?"
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I was just the voice in this 'discussion' trying to figure out how he began by painting all public schools with such a broad brush when clearly there are differences between true, traditional publics and those who are quasi-privates with open enrollment.
The rest is pretty clear to me. Of course other factors come into play, but schools that can enroll students from numerous zip codes be they private or open enrollment public have a huge advantage. It is easier to build tradition when I have athletes from literally anywhere v. one or two zip codes as most true publics are.
Coaching is very important, but it all begins with talent. The larger my base, the more opportunity to acquire talent. Not really much legitimate argument there. It is why you rarely see a successful private school coach switch to a public school, and certainly not to a closed public.
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Discussion Topic: The answer to "You're the Recruiter"
Lou Demas added to this discussion on November 16, 2010
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Open enrollment, recruiting, who really care's? Parents decide where to send their kids period. Why should a kid get stuck in a poor wrestling school where his wrestling would suffer? The question still remains the same why is there a difference in the number of College AA"S coming out of SPG vs. St.Ed's. Both Are rumored to recruit, both have great coaches,train year round,train hard, buy into their coaches system and have a tradition of winning. Yet, number of D1 AA"S produced is quite different. When we factor in public schools produce just as many AA's if not more, eliminating educational standards as sole reason then what? Statical anomaly?
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Discussion Topic: The answer to "You're the Recruiter"
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on November 16, 2010
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Quote from Lou Demas's post:
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"Open enrollment, recruiting, who really care's? "
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Clearly, Gary cares very much.
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