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Discussion Topic: The answer to "You're the Recruiter"
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on November 16, 2010
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Quote from Lou Demas's post:
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"Open enrollment, recruiting, who really care's? Parents decide where to send their kids period. Why should a kid get stuck in a poor wrestling school where his wrestling would suffer? The question still remains the same why is there a difference in the number of College AA"S coming out of SPG vs. St.Ed's. Both Are rumored to recruit, both have great coaches,train year round,train hard, buy into their coaches system and have a tradition of winning. Yet, number of D1 AA"S produced is quite different. When we factor in public schools produce just as many AA's if not more, eliminating educational standards as sole reason then what? Statical anomaly?"
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"Who really cares?" Well, last I checked recruiting at the high school level is in violation of OHSAA rules. So I would hope most everyone else trying to compete with cheaters would?
And "Why should a kid get stuck in a poor wrestling school where his wrestling would suffer?" Oh, I don't know. Maybe if it is a superior academic school and academics will get a kid MUCH further in life than wrestling. Because sports were intended as an extracurricular for the students of the school, and not the primary focus of an academic institution.
I have to believe you just trying to pull our legs with both of those questions.
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Discussion Topic: The answer to "You're the Recruiter"
Lou Demas added to this discussion on November 17, 2010
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Gary,
I do not think recruiting should be cheating. I am not not talking about buying a kid a car or anything crazy but if a coach has a good program and parents agree his program is best for their kid, why should there be a rule against it? Their are some parents who move across the country Just to have the best private golf or gymnastics instructor now thats not cheating. Would parents who make that type of sacrifice for their kids also not care about their education, I don't think so! The reality of it is, closed enrollment keeps kids in poor schools with low academic standards. Parents should have the right to determine what's right for their kids.
Still, if recruiting is already on going, it still does not explain why some schools have more D1 AA's than an other.
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Discussion Topic: The answer to "You're the Recruiter"
Roe Fox added to this discussion on November 17, 2010
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" do not think recruiting should be cheating. I am not not talking about buying a kid a car or anything crazy but if a coach has a good program and parents agree his program is best for their kid, why should there be a rule against it?"
There isn't if you do it right. What you generally can't do is live in Wooster and send your kid to Perry for a better wrestling opportunity. You can, however, move into the district, establish residency, and have your kid go there (this excludes the open enrollment issue, which wouldn't require the move-in)
Gary's question, I believe, is should you be relocating a family simply for wrestling? I believe he questions the choice morally. The practical issue is not many kids end up with much scholarship money for college due to wrestling. Even the best don't usually get full rides.
So you have now made a lifestyle change for your family based solely (if it is base solely) on sports rather than the larger issues in life, such as academics. There aren't many David Taylors who make it all work.
Certainly everyone should have the ability to do what they feel is best for their children provided it is within the rules. That is part of the American way.
This is a bit far afield from the orignal topic of COLLEGE recruting.
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Discussion Topic: The answer to "You're the Recruiter"
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on November 17, 2010
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Quote from Roe Fox's post:
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"" do not think recruiting should be cheating. I am not not talking about buying a kid a car or anything crazy but if a coach has a good program and parents agree his program is best for their kid, why should there be a rule against it?"
There isn't if you do it right. What you generally can't do is live in Wooster and send your kid to Perry for a better wrestling opportunity. You can, however, move into the district, establish residency, and have your kid go there (this excludes the open enrollment issue, which wouldn't require the move-in)
Gary's question, I believe, is should you be relocating a family simply for wrestling? I believe he questions the choice morally. The practical issue is not many kids end up with much scholarship money for college due to wrestling. Even the best don't usually get full rides.
So you have now made a lifestyle change for your family based solely (if it is base solely) on sports rather than the larger issues in life, such as academics. There aren't many David Taylors who make it all work.
Certainly everyone should have the ability to do what they feel is best for their children provided it is within the rules. That is part of the American way.
This is a bit far afield from the orignal topic of COLLEGE recruting."
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Roe, you are correct in that we have moved a bit off-topic here, but yes you summed up my thinking exactly.
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Discussion Topic: The answer to "You're the Recruiter"
Lou Demas added to this discussion on November 17, 2010
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First off, this country was founded on rule breaking when the rules were deemed unfair! Having the state or government dictate moral values in place of parents is a communist ideology.
What if a single parent lives in a impoverished area of their town but gets job right next to a school with better school and better sport program. It would be wrong to go there?Should the state dictate, if your born in ghetto you have to stay their. Does not sound very American to me. Sure there are not tons of scholarships but there are a lot of kids who would only continue their education if a college coach came and said, you have the talent to wrestle in college and we will find ways to help you with financial aid. Now that very same kid may have never been approached, had not his parents endured hardships for their child to get him to better program.
The rich will to what they want with their kids without suffering hardship or worrying about how to pay for college.They also don't have concern themselves about their kids living ghetto neighborhood if their kid does not get out and go to college. Only the less fortunate suffer from closed enrollment.
Point is, I don't care what a parent does to improve the life of their child. I am still concerned what the difference between Schools who produce D1 AA"S
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Discussion Topic: The answer to "You're the Recruiter"
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on November 17, 2010
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The rich will to what they want with their kids without suffering hardship or worrying about how to pay for college.They also don't have concern themselves about their kids living ghetto neighborhood if their kid does not get out and go to college. Only the less fortunate suffer from closed enrollment.
Lou, this country is also based on Capitalism, and the above is an example of that.
Is it fair? Maybe not. But for those who really don't like it, they are always free to move to a Socialist nation.
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Discussion Topic: The answer to "You're the Recruiter"
Kelly Flannery added to this discussion on November 17, 2010
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What if the answer is as easy as the geographical areas of the schools? St. Ed's could produce more AA's because its students are more apt to adjusting to the hustle and bustle. Also, don't alot of their students already dorm there? They may be used to being away, and not have to re-adjust so much, giving more time to wrestle :)
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Discussion Topic: The answer to "You're the Recruiter"
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on November 17, 2010
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Quote from Kelly Flannery's post:
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"What if the answer is as easy as the geographical areas of the schools? St. Ed's could produce more AA's because its students are more apt to adjusting to the hustle and bustle. Also, don't alot of their students already dorm there? They may be used to being away, and not have to re-adjust so much, giving more time to wrestle :)"
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Kelly, I could be wrong but I have lived up here 54 years and have never heard of dorms at Eds.
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Discussion Topic: The answer to "You're the Recruiter"
Kelly Flannery added to this discussion on November 17, 2010
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Well you know you have me there. I was only guessing as I know some hockey families that have sons who go there and being from out-of-state I thought they had dorms.
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Discussion Topic: The answer to "You're the Recruiter"
Roe Fox added to this discussion on November 17, 2010
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"What if a single parent lives in a impoverished area of their town but gets job right next to a school with better school and better sport program."
I'm not sure what that has to do with the discussion in any fashion. I don't believe anyone would disagree with doing that.
It is, however, a far cry from moving solely for wrestling, which again is the point I believe was being made.
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Discussion Topic: The answer to "You're the Recruiter"
Lou Demas added to this discussion on November 18, 2010
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Quote from Gary Sommers's post:
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"The rich will to what they want with their kids without suffering hardship or worrying about how to pay for college.They also don't have concern themselves about their kids living ghetto neighborhood if their kid does not get out and go to college. Only the less fortunate suffer from closed enrollment.
Lou, this country is also based on Capitalism, and the above is an example of that.
Is it fair? Maybe not. But for those who really don't like it, they are always free to move to a Socialist nation."
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Gary,
You lost me, you either posted without given much thought to what you were posting(I have done the same) or you have a poor understanding of capitalism as compared to socialism.
In capitalism you would open markets and open enrollment.This is why capitalist want open enrollment, school voucher's and some want the school system to be the complete domain of the private sector. If someone was to move to socialist country they would find themselves in a more restrictive form of government with even less of a chance of getting to go to a school of their choosing for their children.
Roe,
I find it funny, that with all the dead beat parents and bad parents out there anyone could pass judgement on anyone willing to make huge sacrifices for children they love. i do not care one bit if someone moves their family so the can go to a better art, music or wrestling program. None of my business. Maybe you would not move to support your child in some area of their life they are passionate about, that's also none of my business. Does moving or not moving make one parent better than an other, no but I don't believe anyone has the right to morally judge either on what they should do or not do for their children in this situation.
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Discussion Topic: The answer to "You're the Recruiter"
Roe Fox added to this discussion on November 18, 2010
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"I do not care one bit if someone moves their family so the can go to a better art, music or wrestling program."
You don't have to. I'm not sure you read what is written very carefully.
Regardless, I will be off this topic except to say any parent who moves their kid SOLELY for the purpose of a sport without any regard for academics runs a huge risk of teaching that kid a vey poor lesson about life.
And to NOT move SOLELY for the purpose of sports does not mean those parents don't care about providing for their child. In fact, one could argue it may show just the opposite.
I really believe, again, that is Gary's point and if it is I believe it has great merit.
The way you phrase it, if a family of five DOESN'T move everyone and the dog to suit the whim of a 14-year-old-maybe-someday-pretty-good-wrestler-who-may-never-go-to-college, the parents are somehow not doing the right thing. Even if they do go to college, the financial payoff is likely to be relatively small.
Now, if a parent moves from the city of Akron to, say, Hudson for the academics and the kids happen to be good soccer players and Hudson has a great program, that seems a little more logical.
To move from Hudson to another district with poor academics simply for wrestling seems to place priorities out of whack. You may disagree with that. I would suggest there are, unfortunately, parents who do not disagree with that.
This is not meant to addres the St. Ed's issue because with Ed's you get the best of both worlds. But as we have seen repeatedly, you don't have to move to go to a parochial, generally speaking. I am only addressing the public school issue. I think Gary applies this rationale to parochials, also.
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Discussion Topic: The answer to "You're the Recruiter"
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on November 18, 2010
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Quote from Roe Fox's post:
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""I do not care one bit if someone moves their family so the can go to a better art, music or wrestling program."
You don't have to. I'm not sure you read what is written very carefully.
Regardless, I will be off this topic except to say any parent who moves their kid SOLELY for the purpose of a sport without any regard for academics runs a huge risk of teaching that kid a vey poor lesson about life.
And to NOT move SOLELY for the purpose of sports does not mean those parents don't care about providing for their child. In fact, one could argue it may show just the opposite.
I really believe, again, that is Gary's point and if it is I believe it has great merit.
The way you phrase it, if a family of five DOESN'T move everyone and the dog to suit the whim of a 14-year-old-maybe-someday-pretty-good-wrestler-who-may-never-go-to-college, the parents are somehow not doing the right thing. Even if they do go to college, the financial payoff is likely to be relatively small.
Now, if a parent moves from the city of Akron to, say, Hudson for the academics and the kids happen to be good soccer players and Hudson has a great program, that seems a little more logical.
To move from Hudson to another district with poor academics simply for wrestling seems to place priorities out of whack. You may disagree with that. I would suggest there are, unfortunately, parents who do not disagree with that.
This is not meant to addres the St. Ed's issue because with Ed's you get the best of both worlds. But as we have seen repeatedly, you don't have to move to go to a parochial, generally speaking. I am only addressing the public school issue. I think Gary applies this rationale to parochials, also."
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Roe, you are again exactly correct in your capturing of what I was saying. To move just for a sport with little, if any, meaningful future beyond high school is beyond comprehension to me.
Lou, I understand what you were saying about Capitalism v. Socialism. My point, and perhaps poorly worded, was that in this nation there will always be people who have more than others. That is, I guess, the American way. To cheat, per the set standards, to try and obtain more is just not acceptable at least to me.
By the way, for parents to move SOLELY for wrestling is bizarre to me but I suppose legal. It is the illegal contact/recruiting, and inducements offered (yes Bob, they DO happen), that the private and parochials have to be accountable for.
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Discussion Topic: The answer to "You're the Recruiter"
Lou Demas added to this discussion on November 18, 2010
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Gary, Roe ,
Like, I said before, for the parents who can afford to move, not such a hardship It's a hardship for parents who can open enroll their kids because they cant afford to move. Let's have open enrollment for all and may the best program win. That's American!
Also in life not everything is about the money, many top wrestlers' get recruitment letter's from schools like Harvard or Cornell but choose to go to Oklahoma,Iowa or Ohio St.. Are they all wrong? Teacher's don't teach for the big bucks, most artist do not get rich. Most people if able, would take less money to be able to be do what they love. So if you are the type of person who looks solely for economic pay off in choosing what schools right for your child vs. if your son or daughter has a true passion for wrestling,dance,art,skating, gymnastics..etc. I feel sorry for your child.
let's also be honest any parent willing to move for their child,will be concerned about their kids education. Never have a met a parent say, I just want little Jimmy to be a State champ but I don't care if he works for Minimum Wage for the rest of his life.
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Discussion Topic: The answer to "You're the Recruiter"
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on November 18, 2010
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Lou... You've met me before! ;-)
I heart communism.
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