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Discussion Topic: Thoughts on Nemec and Sponseller moving down a weight class
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on November 21, 2010
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I don't think Nemec and Sponseller's weight cuts are making any sense when one looks at the bigger picture.
First, the Bucks' lineup is not formidable with them down a weight. The injury to Jameson and Demas' situation (he's not enrolled until next quarter so he can't help them) has left them with a hole the size of Detroit at 165. Kusar has heart but not size. If both guys move back up, the Bucks will have a similar hole at 149 but at least a couple guys with better size for the weight.
Secondly, it's early but I see no indication that Sponseller is a better wrestler at this lower weight. He's winning but it's not like he's cutting through the competition as if they're not there. Indeed, he was more dominant at 165. If I thought he was a viable national title contender at 157, my opinion would change. Right now, he just looks like another top 12 wrestler at the weight. At 165, Sponseller had a terrific career with the exception of his performances at the last two national tournaments. He has many wins over All-Americans including a national champ and finalist and some big tournament performances. I never thought his problem was the weight class--it was a certain level of offensive predictability, some bottom wrestling issues and bad coaching decisions during some of his matches. All of this could be improved on in the room.
Nemec wasn't moving mountains at 157 but he could compete against tough guys at this class. At 149, his results have been humbling. I don't blame him at all. Wrestling one weight below where you belong will render you unable to compete effectively. If the best that can be said, is that he beat the wrestler that beat Eric Grajales (who is up one weight too high and has not done anything yet collegiately), it's a bad situation.
It's tempting to pull out the J Jaggers example and offer it as proof that guys can struggle early, get used to the cut, and become monsters at a weight class. But J was a very unique talent and all of us are fortunate for having had the opportunity to watch him over the last several years. It's far more likely that these guys are simply cutting too much weight for no apparent reason.
It's still early enough to pull the plug on this experiment. I hope the coaches do it.
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Discussion Topic: Thoughts on Nemec and Sponseller moving down a weight class
Ben Golden added to this discussion on November 21, 2010
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Interestingly, I thought Sponseller looked smaller than both of his opponents today. Anyone else feel that way?
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Discussion Topic: Thoughts on Nemec and Sponseller moving down a weight class
Jamie Teel added to this discussion on November 21, 2010
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Ive always been against the constant weight cutting. Its necessary evil in our sport I suppose but I can recall Lance Palmer struggling a bit his Jr. year at Eds while cutting to 119. He decided to go 125 and right off the bat opens the Graham dual with a convincing win over Doggett. He just always looked better to me not cutting the wt.
One must be very careful to not start cutting muscle to simply weigh less.
I think OSU has glaring holes however they manipulate their wts. this year. I will state it now....Colt doesnt beat Taylor this year!
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Discussion Topic: Thoughts on Nemec and Sponseller moving down a weight class
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on November 21, 2010
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Hank, being a Michigan honk I noticed that about Grajales. Is that just a temporary weight for him?
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Discussion Topic: Thoughts on Nemec and Sponseller moving down a weight class
Jack Muni added to this discussion on November 21, 2010
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I thought Nemec wrestled better today than at Buffalo. He has a nice match vs. Pitt. With Nebraska it was sort of a mental error for being taken down at the end of the match. He shot the double, had the leg and appeared to be hanging on for the win, but he balled up and got cradled enough to get the TD call for Nebraska and erase the 3 sec riding time. If he stalls, he might loss a penalty point, but the riding time would give him the 1 point win? BTW: Stieber was awesome. Zanetta lost to NCAA Champ McDonough 10-6 at Nationals, and Logan techs him. He beat him in all facets, TD's, tilts & back points, riding, just outstanding!! Zanetta was off balance from the opening whistle; he didn't know what was coming next. I also thought Paddock did a great job. Real crisp on all his stuff. Not getting pushed around anymore. He's doing the pushing now. A very nice progression from his freshman year.
One last thought: would they dare consider putting Demas in at 165 if they are still hurting there next semester?
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Discussion Topic: Thoughts on Nemec and Sponseller moving down a weight class
Brian Morrow added to this discussion on November 21, 2010
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This appears to be growing yr from what everyone is saying. So I say you redshirt Demas this yr. Next yr we have few great wrestlers who can fill the holes. I think Garcia steps right in at 165. Then we have Demas and Heflin battling at 174 w/ Courts stepping in at 184. I am not convinced that Magrum can be successful at 197 though. I feel if Courts still growing you have to consider him at 197. Then you bring Magrum down to 184 where I believe he will do much better.
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Discussion Topic: Thoughts on Nemec and Sponseller moving down a weight class
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on November 21, 2010
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Hang on, Mike. I got this one...
Wait til next year!!!
As for Demas to 165 THIS year... Mmmmnot so much. Give up a forfeit. If team success is cyclical (which by and large I agree with) you should only have to scale back the line-up one year to generate 6 to 10 years of success.
The good thing about Stieber is he has Olympic aspirations... Olympic Redshirt. If you wanna get CRAZY crazy, you have him back-to-back redshirt and really focus on developing the entire class of redshirts... Start reigning in classes like this one... SICK!!!
Just thinking.
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Discussion Topic: Thoughts on Nemec and Sponseller moving down a weight class
Pat Costilow added to this discussion on November 21, 2010
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Quote from Gary Sommers's post:
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"Hank, being a Michigan honk I noticed that about Grajales. Is that just a temporary weight for him?"
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I know I'm not Hank, but.... Grajales was going to go 133, and did his best to make the pull but just couldn't do it. There is no way he is beating title hopeful Kellen Russell at 141, so he is forced to go 149. Michigan has Zac Stevens at 133, so this really might actually be what is best for team results.
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Discussion Topic: Thoughts on Nemec and Sponseller moving down a weight class
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on November 22, 2010
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--Gary: Pat is correct
--Demas is already being looked to as the future 157. He has had pretty good results in open events. Also, he's not officially on the squad until next quarter which means he's probably not allowed to practice with the team. That makes his results more impressive. Can he wrestle effectively at that weight? We'll see. If he is truly the future of that weight class, then you don't burn his redshirt to fill at 165.
--I wondered if Stieber might struggle a bit in his opening duals since he's been recovering from some minor injuries. I thought it might have hurt him against a solid Zanetta not to have had some tune up matches. Guess not. I'll go on record as saying he is currently the best wrestler in that room. He and Paddock are a nice 1-2 punch and the only two guys that are pounding opponents. Move Sponseller back to 165 and the Bucks have three serious AA candidates. That's something to shoot for in what is going to be a difficult season.
--Collin Palmer has so much talent that it's impossible not to believe he'll come around nicely if he can stay healthy and get into shape. I'm looking forward to watching him develop.
--I do wish Lance was in the room coaching Collin and the middlewts. I'd love to have at least one "bad boy" in the room. Best assistant in Buckeye history was Mark Coleman. He took the guys out on weekends, drank with them, fought with them--and also trained the hell out of them. He held them together during one of the two most successful periods in Buckeye history (the other era being the last four years). When he got in trouble and had to leave, the program fell apart. I see Lance as a similar type of personality.
Just my thoughts...recognizing that I may well be way off...
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Discussion Topic: Thoughts on Nemec and Sponseller moving down a weight class
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on November 22, 2010
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"--Gary: Pat is correct
--Demas is already being looked to as the future 157. He has had pretty good results in open events. Also, he's not officially on the squad until next quarter which means he's probably not allowed to practice with the team. That makes his results more impressive. Can he wrestle effectively at that weight? We'll see. If he is truly the future of that weight class, then you don't burn his redshirt to fill at 165.
--I wondered if Stieber might struggle a bit in his opening duals since he's been recovering from some minor injuries. I thought it might have hurt him against a solid Zanetta not to have had some tune up matches. Guess not. I'll go on record as saying he is currently the best wrestler in that room. He and Paddock are a nice 1-2 punch and the only two guys that are pounding opponents. Move Sponseller back to 165 and the Bucks have three serious AA candidates. That's something to shoot for in what is going to be a difficult season.
--Collin Palmer has so much talent that it's impossible not to believe he'll come around nicely if he can stay healthy and get into shape. I'm looking forward to watching him develop.
--I do wish Lance was in the room coaching Collin and the middlewts. I'd love to have at least one "bad boy" in the room. Best assistant in Buckeye history was Mark Coleman. He took the guys out on weekends, drank with them, fought with them--and also trained the hell out of them. He held them together during one of the two most successful periods in Buckeye history (the other era being the last four years). When he got in trouble and had to leave, the program fell apart. I see Lance as a similar type of personality.
Just my thoughts...recognizing that I may well be way off..."
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Just curious, what was the legal drinking age in Ohio at the time Coleman was taking the guys out on weekends and drinking with them? Was he some form of volunteer, or an actual paid coach at that time?
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Discussion Topic: Thoughts on Nemec and Sponseller moving down a weight class
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on November 22, 2010
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You knew that was coming.
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Discussion Topic: Thoughts on Nemec and Sponseller moving down a weight class
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on November 22, 2010
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What, not a legitimate question about an "authority figure" working with potentially underage children?
Or did I forget that EVERYTHING is okay at Ohio Stare?
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Discussion Topic: Thoughts on Nemec and Sponseller moving down a weight class
Ben Golden added to this discussion on November 22, 2010
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Quote from Gary Sommers's post:
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"What, not a legitimate question about an "authority figure" working with potentially underage children?
Or did I forget that EVERYTHING is okay at Ohio Stare?"
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Most college students don't classify as "children."
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Discussion Topic: Thoughts on Nemec and Sponseller moving down a weight class
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on November 22, 2010
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Well, Coleman was there about twenty years ago. Wouldn't that fall in those years where honesty and integrity were running rampant?
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Discussion Topic: Thoughts on Nemec and Sponseller moving down a weight class
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on November 22, 2010
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GS typically posts a shot, "Or did I forget that EVERYTHING is okay at Ohio Stare?" ---
spare us GS, its U of M thats under recent NCAA investigation for football practice violations. And i see a couple Fab 5 basketballers didnt show to be honored this weekend at U of M, seems Chris Weber not allowed on campus for illegal accepting money and NCAA banners from his era were taken down.
So give it a rest. Ohio st has had problems at times, but not often. No ones hands are completely clean, for sure U of M's aren't.
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BTW, i think all ohio states Upperwts might be moving down a wt 174 thru 197.
Big mistake not geting Max Thomusseit, cant let the ohio elite get away....he would fit fine with Courts, too, let em work it out whose 197 and whose 184. s/BobP
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