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Discussion Topic: Buckeyes at Cliff Keen Las Vegas Invitational
Don Bork added to this discussion on December 3, 2010
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We need to have a good day tommorrow. Hope to see Sponseller and Stieber reach the finals and at least three other placers with our best chances being Paddock, Nemec and Heflin. Capone is a possibility. I think Kusar has exceeded most people expectations with three wins at this point. A better team showing would have been possible with Palmer and Magrum in the lineup.
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Discussion Topic: Buckeyes at Cliff Keen Las Vegas Invitational
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on December 3, 2010
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Quality win for Heflin. He had a rough dual weekend against Pitt and Nebraska but has emerged as the lone upper wt bright spot thus far this season.
Any wins for Kusar at 165 are good ones. He scraps at least. More than I can say for much of the lineup.
Disappointing not to see Collin Palmer getting more matches under his belt regardless of result.
Sean Nemec has had a Jeckyll-Hyde type quality to his performances this year. Hard to say whether or not it's the weight cut or simply a reflection of his current abilities.
Disagree with those of you that say Magrum is too small. He had solid performances last year at the same wt and looked pretty good at season's end. Hard to understand why he has struggled so much in the early going. Perhaps an injury?
Hiles has shown nothing so far this year. Capone wins some and loses some but will not be Big Ten competitive without improvement.
I love Logan Stieber but feel too much was made of his two opening wins. Expectations may be unreasonable. He's going to have hard matches and some losses. This isn't high school. Guys have to wrestle hurt and sick and the competition is always tough--that's why Cael's streak is so remarkable. There are several guys in this field that could knock him off. Don't jump if it happens. Logan, if healthy, will be a formidable contender at this weight all season.
Colt will have to wrestle very well to win out at this weight. It will be a statement if he does so.
Roe: Demas has wrestled 157 in two open events. I expect the staff will try hard to keep him at that weight next season.
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Discussion Topic: Buckeyes at Cliff Keen Las Vegas Invitational
Ben Golden added to this discussion on December 4, 2010
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Logan picks up a quality 9-5 win over #16 Steve Bonanno to advance to the semis. There is a video of his second round match on Flo.
Sponseller advances to the semis after accepting a medical forfeit.
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Discussion Topic: Buckeyes at Cliff Keen Las Vegas Invitational
Jack Muni added to this discussion on December 4, 2010
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Heflin's 3-0 loss to highly-ranked Bennett is a nice barometer of where he is right now. I look at it as a positive. That's a one TD margin vs. a top-five kid. And this is only Nick's first varsity season. Good job so far.
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Discussion Topic: Buckeyes at Cliff Keen Las Vegas Invitational
Brad Proudfoot added to this discussion on December 4, 2010
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Quote from Jack Muni's post:
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"Heflin's 3-0 loss to highly-ranked Bennett is a nice barometer of where he is right now. I look at it as a positive. That's a one TD margin vs. a top-five kid. And this is only Nick's first varsity season. Good job so far."
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I agree with Jack's assessment of Heflin. I really think that we could see marked improvement from Nick throughout the season. It has to be beneficial to him to have Pucillo in the room everyday to provide feedback and insight.
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Discussion Topic: Buckeyes at Cliff Keen Las Vegas Invitational
Ben Golden added to this discussion on December 4, 2010
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Logan loses 3 in a row to take 6th.
Paddock med forfeits his 5th place match.
Sponseller collects his second med forfeit of the tournament to take 5th.
Heflin takes 7th, beating Manuel again.
Only losses were to #5 Jordan Blanton and #6 Ben Bennett.
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Discussion Topic: Buckeyes at Cliff Keen Las Vegas Invitational
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on December 4, 2010
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The only Buckeye to have a good tournament was Heflin.
The Bucks lineup is probably about 30th in the country.
I see too many Ohio guys making major contributions for out-of-state programs. Ryan has chosen to go after top guys nationally from out-of-state as opposed to making hard plays for all top in-state talent. The result is what you see. A no depth program which is underachieving. Yeah, the cavalry arrives next year. This year it looks like Hellickson is back in charge.
Ohio is perenially a top 3 high school wrestling state nationally with several programs ranked top 40 each season. No way that Ohio State should ever be this bad. Not in Ryan's 5th season.
What's wrong? How does it get fixed?
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Discussion Topic: Buckeyes at Cliff Keen Las Vegas Invitational
Don Bork added to this discussion on December 4, 2010
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Pretty much have to agree with your post in its entirety. Very frustrating. Many questions to be answered by this years squad and coaches. Is the experiment working? Not so far. If Colt had AA just once in the last two years would he be at 157 today? Will he and Nemec acclimate to the lower weight over the course of the next two and a half months? Stieber will be succesful in college, but what happened this weekend. Where were Palmer and Magrum. Do they have health issues? And what happened to the bigger stronger more fit Magrum we were supposed to see this year? He did not show up at the Buckeye duals two weeks ago. Paddock had a good tourny losing to a much improved Futrell and the veteran Ruggerillo. But what with the medical in his 5th place bout, is he OK? Coach Ryan has always had his team peek at seasons end, but if TOSU is to place even in the top 15 nationally, they have a very long way to go.
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Discussion Topic: Buckeyes at Cliff Keen Las Vegas Invitational
Jack Muni added to this discussion on December 4, 2010
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They started decent, but day 2 was a disaster. I didn't mind Stieber losing 2-1 to Patterson, a 4-timer out of Okla. with a year of college experience, and a 9-8 loss to the Cornell kid (lots of scoring), but the 6-0 loss to Lara, who was teched by Robles, that bothered me. I'm hoping he had a letdown? after the loss to Patterson. Or perhaps he's not 100% physically? We'll see how he does against Edinboro next week.
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Discussion Topic: Buckeyes at Cliff Keen Las Vegas Invitational
Fred Feeney added to this discussion on December 5, 2010
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Just my 2cents....this was a pretty tough opening tournament. 6 Big Ten teams there...15 of the top 25 teams were there. I wouldn't be too critical yet of anyone's performance, as was mentioned...the prize is in March..not December.
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Discussion Topic: Buckeyes at Cliff Keen Las Vegas Invitational
Don Bork added to this discussion on December 5, 2010
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There is a long way to go till march but unlike Jaggers, Colt has never been a slow starter. His loss to Peppleman was the worst of his carrer with only an 11-3 loss to Lewnes in his Soph year being comparable, and Peppleman, though solid, is no Lewnes. After seeing the Buckeye duals, Colt did not appear bigger or stronger than his opponents and also did not wrestle with the energy or fire that I've seen the previous three years. I'm wondering if there is any chance that Ryan and Colt will reconsider the weight change. Still 2 and a half months to bulk back up and be ready for B10s and NCAAs. Waiting another 3 or 4 weeks to make that decision may be too late.
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Discussion Topic: Buckeyes at Cliff Keen Las Vegas Invitational
Jack Muni added to this discussion on December 5, 2010
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"did not wrestle with the energy or fire" That's the element that is missing. He doesn't run back to the middle of the mat like he used to either. Ryan even mentioned in an interview in Vegas that the marathon Colt ran prior to the season really took a lot out of him. Body still adjusting. You've got to wonder.
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Discussion Topic: Buckeyes at Cliff Keen Las Vegas Invitational
Rex Holman added to this discussion on December 5, 2010
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I guess the honeymoon is over Ethel.
Here is something to contemplate.
Wrestlers are redshirted in order to progress, which is a euphemism for gain advantage.
Kids that win a HS championship at 19 are at an advantage over those that are 18. Woohoo, you won a championship because you were physically more mature and had more time to develop.
Logan has been thrown into the proverbial fire. Triple dipping is like a runaway train that sucks. Win-win-win-lose-lose-lose. I feel for the guy as he lost more times yesterday than he did in HS.
Look at what Brands did for the beginning of this season, he ducked competition because he knew his wrestlers were not up to the task---yet.
Logan is beatable which was confirmed this week. Mentally and physically, he was even but not above a lot of his opponents.
That takes true bravery although we dismiss it as just losing. The wrestler that that gets coddled in a redshirt and fed weaker opponents until he is up to a greater task is at advantage. But that is winning. I ask that you maybe look a little harder at winning and losing from an athlete's perspective.
Hats off to Logan, you got my respect for competing under less than ideal conditions. I know losing is difficult but the lesson is that you have to strengthen your resolve all that much more and correct those areas in which you get beat.
You are better than how you competed this weekend, but it takes time to figure it out.
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Last edited by Rex Holman on December 5, 2010; edited 1 time in total
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Discussion Topic: Buckeyes at Cliff Keen Las Vegas Invitational
Brian Morrow added to this discussion on December 5, 2010
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I know this is College wrestling but Logan is better than he showed. I may be only one but I believe he could won it. As for Sponseller he lost to kid David Taylor already beat. Man David Taylor is going to be great. Ohio State just don't have team like they did past couple yrs. There has to be some change to lineup I believe. I like to see Nemec and Sponseller go back to normal weight. I also like to see Magrum come down.
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Last edited by Brian Morrow on December 5, 2010; edited 1 time in total
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Discussion Topic: Buckeyes at Cliff Keen Las Vegas Invitational
Dan Ransick added to this discussion on December 5, 2010
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The Bucks have a long way to go this year. This definately will be Ryan's worst year. What's disturbing is that this is the 4th year for his first recruiting class and only Triggas has AA'd out of the bunch and that was by the skin of his teeth.
There has been serious regression in this entire class from Sponseller to Nemec and everyone in between. The 2007 class has never gotten off the ground and it doesn't appear it ever will at this rate.
Where do we go from here? Stieber should be fine he's only a freshman and not in the greatest health from my understanding. He'll get better and right now I see him as the only AA in March right now. Heflin shows great promise but the rest definately worries me as they shouldn't be struggling like this with the talent on that roster.
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