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Discussion Topic: OSU - Iowa
Lou Demas added to this discussion on January 24, 2011
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Michael,
Iowa is not in top 10 of college ranking, did not attend Natl. duals. Yea they suffered from their losses also.
Fans don't except their teams losses as ok, they stick by them.
The word Fan:
"devotee," 1889, Amer.Eng., originally of baseball enthusiasts, probably a shortening of fanatic, but may be influenced by the fancy, a collective term for followers of a certain hobby or sport.
And if you remember, Fanatics drank Jim Jones Koolaid, knowing it would kill them. The least a real Fan could do is stick by and support their team when they are down.
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Discussion Topic: OSU - Iowa
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on January 24, 2011
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Lou...I get what you're saying. And I'm not suggesting that Ohio State wrestling fans should abandon their team when they're struggling. I do think that, for some reason, Ohio State wrestling fans are simply willing to accept less then they should, and have been willin gto do so for a long time now (for the history of the program really). Ohio is a top two wrestling state. Ohio State should be a top wrestling program, period. Down years happen, but what we're seeing this year should never happen.
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Discussion Topic: OSU - Iowa
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on January 24, 2011
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Quote from Rex Holman's post:
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"The dual was started at 184, which smelled a little fishy to me. If Iowa wanted a shut out that was the strategic way to go about it.
OSUs best hopes for wins were Colt and Heflin. They wrestled at the end of the dual and were forced to watch a losing effort. I almost did not bring it up but it seemed like an Iowa shenanigan to me. Much like the dressing room being painted pink."
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Is it against any rules to start at 184?
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Discussion Topic: OSU - Iowa
Fred Feeney added to this discussion on January 24, 2011
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1.6 Determining Wrestling Order
Immediately after the weigh-in for a dual meet or multiple dual meets conducted on the same day, coaches may mutually agree to determine the order of matches to be wrestled, allowing for a particular weight class to be featured. Once the first weight class is established, subsequent matches will continue in the traditional sequence of increasing weight class.
If coaches cannot agree on the wrestling order, a random draw shall be conducted to determine which weight class will be wrestled first.
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Discussion Topic: OSU - Iowa
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on January 24, 2011
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I think Tom Ryan has done a lot of things very well since his arrival. The 15 AA's, 3 National Champs and the establishment of the Ohio RTC are all on his watch and he deserves tremendous credit.
But...
He's either bungled the recruiting process and/or failed to properly develop the talent on hand since his arrival. This year is a disaster--period. Injuries are a major contributor to this squad's performance issues but not the only reason for their troubles.
I think Coach Ryan has not been as successful as expected at recruiting in-state and that this shortcoming has hurt the Buckeyes in terms of in-room talent. And I think a major reason for this difficulty has been that he's too often expended a lot of energy recruiting out-of-state stars. Those guys are always the hardest to land because John Smith, Cael Sanderson, Tom Brands, et.al, are also after them. I think he'd be better served by narrowing his sights for the most part and making it his mission to get the 4-5 best in-state prospects each year.
And I think that the staff has to do a better job of helping the wrestlers make adjustments (echoing Rex here--he has insight into these things that the rest of us don't). Plenty of wrestlers have improved under Ryan's tenure but a lot have stayed stagnant.
Every program recruits some guys that don't pan out but the majority need to be productive. Ohio State has had too many over the last several seasons that haven't worked out.
Two last thoughts.
1) Ohio State has some solid wrestlers in their room right now and will add a heralded recruiting class next fall. I think it's very important to Ryan's credibility as well as the future of the program that this group develop. Hence my suggestion would be to redshirt everyone. Let them get a year's experience, make adjustments and then put a very fine young squad on the mat in the fall of 2012.
2) If you watch Graham v Eds on Gohiocasts.com, there's some incredible talent at a variety of weights in both programs. The Bucks have to make those two programs the center of their recruiting efforts in-state. It's vital for Coach Ryan not to end up in the same predicament with Graham that his predecessor found himself with St Eds.
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Discussion Topic: OSU - Iowa
Roe Fox added to this discussion on January 24, 2011
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TOSU has lost 3 out of 10 staters to injury, 2 of whom won't be back at all. I'm not the brighest guy but take 30% percent out of anyone's line-up and they will be affected.
What happens to PSU if they lose 125, 141 and 157. And don't tell me Jameson wouldn't be at 157 right now with Nemec losing. I haven't seen anyone do so well in wrestle-offs and underperform in matches since. . .me in high school.
They lost Heskett because he was hired away to be a head coach. No question when he was here those around his weight benefitted.
As many have said the Spons and Nemec experiment didn't work. That is a coaching issue because Spons was very successful at 165. I wonder if they didn't know this was going to be a down year and didn't let them pick thier spots.
Coaching is part of the poor recruitng at heavy which I cannot understand because of the Rowlands, Bergman, OTC attractions.
No Demas to put in at 157, no Garcia because of his deferrment.
All in all, next year does seem better and this year, while contributed to by some administrative decisions, wasn't going to be able to overcome the injuries.
You need talent. Isn't Ryan the embodiment of that? He left Syracuse, walked on at Iowa, and for all his dedication to the sport and training at Iowa, he could only reach second place.
You don't lose the guys mentioned above and not feel it.
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Discussion Topic: OSU - Iowa
Ben Golden added to this discussion on January 24, 2011
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Roe: Make that 40% as Hiles has left the team.
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Discussion Topic: OSU - Iowa
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on January 24, 2011
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Quote from Roe Fox's post:
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"... I haven't seen anyone do so well in wrestle-offs and underperform in matches since. . .me in high school.
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My new best friend. A man after my own heart, I say!
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Discussion Topic: OSU - Iowa
Kirk Nail added to this discussion on January 24, 2011
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The reality of the situation is that no team can sustain what Iowa did under Gable. That's the the ultimate goal of every Big 10 school. It's just unrealistic. The national landscape has changed. More high school talent is choosing to stay close to home.
Give it some time, the situation Tom is in now is not all that different than what lead to Russ leaving the program. Tom had great success with Russ' recruiting and the addition of Mike. We need to allow the team to develop and to grow. To have freshman winners jump right in is not very common. We were blessed with a number of them for many years, I think Stieber was the next one but now we have to wait. It takes time and patience to develop a program.
Truthfully, my only issue with the program right now is their inability to get out on bottom, starting with Colt Sponseller. No excuses. Getting out on bottom is an attitude.
I garuntee Tom will have the program back on the elite level within 2 years.
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Discussion Topic: OSU - Iowa
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on January 24, 2011
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Kirk - thanks for the post and insight, good info.
Lou - Iowa is ranked 10th by InterMat's tournament rankings, 9th by D1CollegeWrestling, and 6th by TheOpenMat. These three rankings are pretty well respected, so they are indeed a top 10 team.
They lost Dennis, Marion (due back soon, apparently), Metcalf, Morningstar, Borschel, Keddy, and Erekson off last year's team.
I say this only because it is unfair to compare the two programs right now. Iowa is still the benchmark, even after losing 7 AAs from the previous season.
I agree with everyone who says OSU will be fine in time. Coach Ryan is a great coach. But I also agree that OSU fans should be disappointed with this season's team, because expectations should be high.
Discussion is healthy.
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Discussion Topic: OSU - Iowa
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on January 24, 2011
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I think we all feel a level of disappointment. But not to the point of degrading the wrestlers with personal attacks. We all want the same thing and I have to think it includes those in the room... A national title!!!
They know (and have known) everything we have posted. The idea that one of them would read my post and say, "A-ha!!! Of course! How could I have been so blind!?" is unreasonable. (I'm sure some of Rex's posts might bring about something more in that vein!)
But, as you stated, discussion is healthy.
This is one of my top two wrestling sites BY FAR!!!!!!! And all for reasons such as healthy discussions.
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Discussion Topic: OSU - Iowa
Kirk Nail added to this discussion on January 25, 2011
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Mark
Not saying that you took what I said as a personal attack but to be clear, I think very highly of Colt. His work ethic is the best I have ever witnessed. I have a ton of respect for his dedication, work ethic and leadership. I want so badly for him to find the podium this year. He is talented enough. He needs to find a way, I know he can, it is his will that will determine the outcome.
There were a lot of things I didn't understand and still don't about wrestling. Looking back on my mistakes and downfalls makes me wish that I could share whatever I think i've figured out. I would never negatively call out someone. Just my passion for tOSU wrestling program and wanting them to be successful makes me call it like I see it. Do whatever it takes to get your 1, its one of the things im sure of that I was pretty ok at. Go bucks.
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Discussion Topic: OSU - Iowa
Lou Demas added to this discussion on January 25, 2011
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Ethan,
The ranking I checked had them ranked 12th earlier today,they still opted out of Natl. Duals.
My point was more that, wrestling has narrower margins, if a team can go from a natl. champ team to ranked 10th and feel they were not ready for natl duals, they fell quite some also.
I also said this, to point out that fans just don't throw their home team under the bus when things go bad. So maybe as a fan I am guilty having faith that the Ohio St. coaching can do what they have done already, produce champions. I 'm ok with that. Now this does not mean I think people should not be critical of Ohio St, no, I just think for me, I am not ready to bash the team for one one down year.
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Discussion Topic: OSU - Iowa
Roe Fox added to this discussion on January 25, 2011
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Quote from Ben Golden's post:
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"Roe: Make that 40% as Hiles has left the team."
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I know but I chalk that one up to the staff, whether it be recruiting, training, whatever. I was trying to only count those losses they couldn't control.
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Discussion Topic: OSU - Iowa
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on January 25, 2011
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Quote from Kirk Nail's post:
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"Mark
Not saying that you took what I said as a personal attack but to be clear, I think very highly of Colt. His work ethic is the best I have ever witnessed. I have a ton of respect for his dedication, work ethic and leadership. I want so badly for him to find the podium this year. He is talented enough. He needs to find a way, I know he can, it is his will that will determine the outcome.
There were a lot of things I didn't understand and still don't about wrestling. Looking back on my mistakes and downfalls makes me wish that I could share whatever I think I've figured out. I would never negatively call out someone. Just my passion for tOSU wrestling program and wanting them to be successful makes me call it like I see it. Do whatever it takes to get your 1, its one of the things im sure of that I was pretty ok at. Go bucks."
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I would never have thought that you would personally attack. My point was when we (fans) have disappointment, what is the expression we should use... How should we express it? What will it look like?
I might not be sure what it would like like, but I know what it shouldn't look like. I guess that is what I was saying.
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