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Discussion Topic: Cleveland State
Dan Arthur added to this discussion on March 6, 2011
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What is going on with that program?
I don't think they won 5 matches at the EWL's.
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland State
Christopher Henderson added to this discussion on March 7, 2011
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Actually, they only won THREE matches! And two were by their true freshman, undersized, 125 pounder. I hate to say it, but Cleveland State really needs a new coaching staff. Ben Stehura seems like the nicest guy in the world, but he has produced no results whatsoever in three seasons. I think the only thing worse is to have to forfeit weights, which he hasn't had to do.
Maybe Jeff Jaggers is interested in a D1 head coaching job??
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland State
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on March 7, 2011
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Quote from Christopher Henderson's post:
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"Actually, they only won THREE matches! And two were by their true freshman, undersized, 125 pounder. I hate to say it, but Cleveland State really needs a new coaching staff. Ben Stehura seems like the nicest guy in the world, but he has produced no results whatsoever in three seasons. I think the only thing worse is to have to forfeit weights, which he hasn't had to do.
Maybe Jeff Jaggers is interested in a D1 head coaching job??"
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I love Jaggs, and this would be an Ok transition to head coaching, but IMHO, he needs more coaching experience before stepping up to a head coaching position. It's no put down to Jaggs. But being a great wrestler and being a great coach are 2 different things. I'm not doubting his future as a coach, but give him a couple more seasons.
Cleveland State has to decide if they want a wrestling program. Then they have to invest in it.
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland State
Ben Golden added to this discussion on March 7, 2011
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Quote from Patrick Campbell's post:
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"
I love Jaggs, and this would be an Ok transition to head coaching, but IMHO, he needs more coaching experience before stepping up to a head coaching position. It's no put down to Jaggs. But being a great wrestler and being a great coach are 2 different things. I'm not doubting his future as a coach, but give him a couple more seasons.
Cleveland State has to decide if they want a wrestling program. Then they have to invest in it."
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Patrick: I think he was talking about J Jaggers' dad Jeff, who is an assistant coach at Notre Dame College. I was confused by the idea for a while until I saw the picture of "Jeff Jaggers" on NDC's site.
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland State
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on March 7, 2011
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Quote from Ben Golden's post:
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"
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Quote from Patrick Campbell's post:
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"
I love Jaggs, and this would be an Ok transition to head coaching, but IMHO, he needs more coaching experience before stepping up to a head coaching position. It's no put down to Jaggs. But being a great wrestler and being a great coach are 2 different things. I'm not doubting his future as a coach, but give him a couple more seasons.
Cleveland State has to decide if they want a wrestling program. Then they have to invest in it."
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Patrick: I think he was talking about J Jaggers' dad Jeff, who is an assistant coach at Notre Dame College. I was confused by the idea for a while until I saw the picture of "Jeff Jaggers" on NDC's site."
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Ahhhhhh...Thanks!
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland State
Dan Arthur added to this discussion on March 7, 2011
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Quote from Patrick Campbell's post:
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"
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Quote from Christopher Henderson's post:
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"Actually, they only won THREE matches! And two were by their true freshman, undersized, 125 pounder. I hate to say it, but Cleveland State really needs a new coaching staff. Ben Stehura seems like the nicest guy in the world, but he has produced no results whatsoever in three seasons. I think the only thing worse is to have to forfeit weights, which he hasn't had to do.
Maybe Jeff Jaggers is interested in a D1 head coaching job??"
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I love Jaggs, and this would be an Ok transition to head coaching, but IMHO, he needs more coaching experience before stepping up to a head coaching position. It's no put down to Jaggs. But being a great wrestler and being a great coach are 2 different things. I'm not doubting his future as a coach, but give him a couple more seasons.
Cleveland State has to decide if they want a wrestling program. Then they have to invest in it."
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Patrick,
I would say that CSU has decided that they in fact DO want a D1 wrestling program. With so many programs looking for any excuse to drop D1 wrestling and they still have a team says alot.
I would further say they have invested in the program and have gotten poor returns on that investment.
I don't know the coach or his staff or even if he has a staff, but their performance at the EWL's was embarrassing. They didn't just lose, they were abused. With all the talent around Cleveland that team should be competitive. Without looking in detail gotta figure a coaching change would help.
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland State
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on March 7, 2011
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I guess I look at the investment part a little differently. They need to go out and get a legitimate D1 coaching staff. So, I wouldn't say they have spent nothing on the program, but they sure have not invested in it like they want it to thrive. Maybe that is a more fair assessment :)
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland State
Bill Watson added to this discussion on March 7, 2011
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I think the key here is recruiting. I coached one of their recruits in high school and he doesnt seem to be hanging well D1. CSU was his only D1 offer, the rest were D2 and 3 where he could have been a lot better positioned to compete.
I personally think someone like J Jagger would be perfect. let's be honest, Cael Sanderson isn't coming to CSU. Being that I think recruiting is the biggest problem who could do a better job in NE Ohio than Jags, that would realistically take the job? Jaggers can put great coaches around him, but his name alone will bring in what CSU needs the most and thats the level of kids that are going to Kent.
With the state of the program, why not give it to someone young and hungry?
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland State
Leo Zimmer added to this discussion on March 7, 2011
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Ben has had a tough road to hoe there... Taking over for Effner when his son Marcus was still in the room had to be difficult. Kind of a "step Dad" situation there.
Marcus has graduated, and he is bringing in some quality recruits.
Also, the addition of Josh Zupancic (sp?) to that room is REALLY big upgrade to the coaching staff. Hopefully Josh can help pull some local talent.
Also... CSU as a university has literally been a rebuilding mode for several years. It must have been hard for Ben to convince a kid to go there, when Euclid Ave. and much of the CSU campus was under construction. It seriously looked like a bomb went off there. That is behind them now, and CSU is becoming a desirable place for kids to go.
Let's give Ben and Josh another year or two to start turning things around there.
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland State
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 7, 2011
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I'm with those that feel CSU is in their current fix as a result of insufficient athletic department support. There are so few D1 jobs available--and so many high caliber candidates--that it seems clear CSU wants to run wrestling cheaply and hopes to get lucky. Obviously, it's not working. It's hard to imagine that they couldn't have made a better hire a few years ago if they were willing to invest more into wrestling. Good candidates abound if a program is serious about improvement.
Alright--let's just assume I'm wrong and that Ben Stehura was a great hire. Then why are he and his staff recruiting kids that don't belong in D1? Its a guarantee that you'll lose. Schools in the EWL like Clarion and Lock Haven thrive on bringing in tough PA state placers. Shouldn't CSU do the same within Ohio? This philosophy of bringing in out-of-state placers from Wisconsin or KY or Michigan is not going to work. Ohio has plenty of wrestlers to choose from even in a relatively weak senior class like this years. Is there a 2x Alabama placer that's better than Teddy Hammer or Bryson Hall? Of course not. Its laughable to go after some of the kids they've signed when better talent is much closer to home. Please don't tell me they don't want to come to CSU. Convince them.
When CSU is good, the whole Cleveland wrestling scene responds. I've been to plenty of CSU matches with crowds in excess of 1000 fans. It's maddening to know that CSU wants desperately to be a basketball school when it would be so much easier for them to excel in wrestling.
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland State
Bill Splete added to this discussion on March 7, 2011
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I understand the basic fact that we are measured by the wins and losses that we have as coaches, but this is the guy that I am going to give time, remeber that the graduation rate is the real measure of a college coach. Duane Goldman has had a few national champs in almost 20 years at a big ten school but it is his graduation of the athletes that is how they measure him, and Ben is of the same character as Duane. I was coached by Duane and have had a couple conversations with Ben and am satisfied by his desire to win and educate his athletes. It is the best value to cost for education in the state and maybe in the country. let's remeber his budget and the historic reputation that he is left with. Look at Tom Ryan, how many guys does he have out and his room has no depth and he has all the money you could need. These guys have tough jobs, dealing with todays attitudes and respect level, but they are building a good reputation for ohio athletes. This state is doing awesome, and the more opportunities the kids have to graduate and attend college the better. With all this I wonder were all this was when Bonnacci had the program.
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland State
Leo Zimmer added to this discussion on March 7, 2011
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I will admit that there are some names on that roster, that should probably not be in a DI wrestling room.
However of the 25 on the roster, 13 are from Ohio. Regardless of what state they are from, 6 won their respective state championship and 7 more were placers.
Again, if you anywhere near CSU for the past 3-4 years, you would know just how hard it must have been to convince a kid to go to college there. Or better yet, convince his parents to let him. That is behind them now. Upward and onward.
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland State
Kelly Flannery added to this discussion on March 7, 2011
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Every once in awhile I check up on this forum. You guys are very insightful and knowledgeable about wrestling. It was nice to see this article on CSU. A lot of points were brought up that I myself have thought. In my opinion Cleveland State is heading in the right direction, is it happening too slowly, probably, but it is. This past weekend I spent some time asking the coaches what their plans were for next season. I believe they are heading in the right direction. They are a young program with Stehura only in his third season, and he was the only constant there this season. They acquired Zupancic, lost Baynes and finally added Coughlin and Camargo only mid year. Not to mention a team with only one senior starter.
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland State
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 9, 2011
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Bill and Leo are thoughtful guys so I decided to look through CSU's roster and box scores in order to get a better sense of what went on with this team over the season. What I discovered was that several young wrestlers, most notably Ben Willeford (125), Nick Flannery (133) and Chris Weber (285) all did a reasonably good job considering their youth. Willeford and Flannery look like a solid 1-2 punch for the future at the first two weights if they can continue to improve. Both have fine high school credentials and won often enough that I consider them promising. Another wrestler to watch might be frosh Brandon Sommers (CVCA) who had a winning record while competing in open events.
The biggest problem for CSU was the lack of quality upperclassmen. Other than Robbie Michaels, this team had too few guys winning more often than losing. Wrestlers like Thurn, Mencini, Palivoda, Carlo and Cavello all win but not consistently.
In fairness to Ben Stehura, he inherited a team in disarray and he's trying to straighten it out. But he needs several more good recruits in the middle/upperwts. It's going to take both more talent and a few more years of taking lumps to get this program competitive within their conference.
And his margin for error is slim.
One final thought--CSU needs to find a wrestler that people want to watch. If they could just land one exciting area recruit, it would create more interest. Irayel Williams?
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland State
Leo Zimmer added to this discussion on March 9, 2011
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Thoughtful or thoughtless? Just checking...
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