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Discussion Topic: Some Ironman Questions/Random Thoughts
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on December 9, 2007
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1) Meder, the 285 finalist, was listed as being from Parma Heights Valley Forge. Could that be correct or was it "Colonial Forge" the VA school? How could Parma Forge have a 285 this good that came out of thin air?
2) Condon, the 160 from Ga--is he the real deal? I know he beat Cubberly by inj. default although the match was close at the time. If so, and he's uncommitted, is he someone the Buckeyes, desperately needing to land a 174 prospect, should recruit?
3) I can't get over how every year a new Ohio freshman emerges that seems better than anyone that's ever come before him.
--First there was C.P.
--then Dustin seemed even better
--then David Taylor seemed just as good
--then Logan Stieber seemed at least as good
--Now, Chris Phillips! It's hard to believe that a frosh upperwt can be good enough to defeat a top upper wt returning state champ from Eds. Someone made the comment that "he's a 4timer, period." Well, that's hardly the question. Winning four state titles (barring injury) seems like the easy part. Will he ever lose? How would he do in college opens--now? That's the next part. Phillips seems so talented that I'd applaud if he went straight to the Olympic training center and skipped high school. I will find a way to watch this kid during the season.
4) What's equally incredible is that one tiny school from the middle of nowhere Ohio--Monroeville--has produced three of the greatest youth talents in modern history. Poor Hunter Stieber. He won the Ironman as a frosh and no one's even noticed!
5) Chris Phillips, Logan Stieber, David Taylor and Collin Palmer are all now "on the clock." If I'm a certain collegiate wrestling program that got burned chasing out-of-state prospects recently, I know where my focus would be.
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Discussion Topic: Some Ironman Questions/Random Thoughts
Dan Ransick added to this discussion on December 9, 2007
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Meder is from Parma Heights Valley Forge lost in the 1st round of state last year to Frank Becker. Meder jumps to the top of the rankings in DI no doubt.
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Discussion Topic: Some Ironman Questions/Random Thoughts
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on December 9, 2007
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DRansick: Just a reminder--Brush High's Steve Dumas won the Ironman several years ago. He proved to be a very good hs wrestler but hardly memorable in a historical sense.
Still, Garrett Goebel is a nationally recognized stud and Meder gave him a tough match. Valley Forge may be looking at their first serious state title contender since Kyle Bentley.
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Discussion Topic: Some Ironman Questions/Random Thoughts
Pat Costilow added to this discussion on December 9, 2007
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I find those two to be very different. Meder took AWN #3 into overtime. Meder does well, but is raw. He has the physique, moves very well, and has an attacking mindset, he just needs the coaching. Dumas won in a weight that was barren comparably. Not his fault, but I find Meder's performance more impressive. Oh yeah, he is a junior.
My surprise guys who did very well;
Marc Bryan of Ignatius- The unseeded Bryan knocks off nationally ranked Sam Rakes in the second round- wow! He then beat 7 seed Curtice of Uintah. His losses were to finalist Munoz and Jared King, who beat Kusar for third here last year. Could be a coming out party of sorts for him- maybe the Junior High state champ of a few years ago is coming into his own.
Johnny DiJulius (Walsh) I had Mitch pegged as the no.1 in DII, thinking that DiJulius was still too small and a year away. I was right on half of that- DiJulius is still smallish, but it doesn't matter. Beat Brody 16-4 and beat Sako for third.
Cam Tessari- Knew he was good, but he pinned state runner up James Inghram while leading 9-1.
Genetin majored Williams of Tabb VA, then went 1-0 with Villalonga
Seth Horner- Massillon Perry- Three pins, then an OT win over Valles of Blair- that's impressive.
Chase Skonieczny- Beats national no.1 Colin Johnston, who beat Palmer last year. It is a shame that he is hurt, and let's hope it isn't too bad. Kid deserves to be able to win the title he has earned.
Matt Stephens of Graham- Makes the semi's as a freshman at 140- then loses to state champ Sulzer 7-3.
Billy Painter of Aurora- didn't come close to placing, but trust me, this kid is tough. Went 3-2 with Ramos, who beat Mario Mason for third.
Alex Utley- CVCA- Exceptional performance for a freshman- beats No. 2 seed Sam Rakes, beats 7 seed Curtice 14-2. Losses were to eventual champ Condon and 4-2 to Mannier- who looked good at this tourney. Utley got 7th at 160 as a freshman- beastly.
Phillips has been discussed, and will be elsewhere.
Zach Thomusseit- Finished third with wins over Deciantis and Peltier- very good.
Matt Fisher might be the biggest 215 I have ever seen.
Ross Quehl looked good here.
Meder has been discussed.
Out of state guys who were impressive;
Carter of Christianburg at 103- Dominated by Stieber, but dominated everybody else, with two pins and a 15-3 win over Silver of Blair.
Ormsbee, the Blair freshman 135, went 3-2 with Palmer- and gave Collin all he could handle.
Burns, the 145 champ, is a freak of an athlete. In his match with Mason, Mason had Burns' leg all the way up in the air, at a 45 degree angle pointing toward the ceiling, and Burns worked out of it. As Dan said, shades of Darrion Caldwell. The kid attacked constantly, and never seemed to get tired, not the least bit.
Alex Meade is freakishly quick- in his match with Kusar, he made a move to Kusar's headgear, and that was all it took to get Kusar off his base enough for a Meade takedown.
I don't want to jump to any conclusions on Condon. Cubberly hurt his ribs very early on in the match, on an offensive move that he had deep, while the score was 0-0. Who knows what happens in that match if Cubberly doesn't get hurt.
Budi, the WI wrestler who majored Magrum, is excellent on top. He turned Magrum three times, I believe. If he goes to Wisconsin and works out with Trevor Branvolt, uh oh. The kid started off with three pins, then had a 14-1 victory over the 3 seed Huntley from Colonial Forge (who had two pins and a major of 6 seed Grimes of Montini heading into that match), then the 12-4 victory over Magrum. This kid is seriously good.
Mike Hall- 215- Canon McMillan- This is a great looking sophomore. He has the best build of any 215 I saw this weeked- tall, broad shouldered, and very lean. He beat Logan White 17-3 in the first round, beat Mike Green of Eds 7-4 in the second round, then lost 3-1 to Fisher. He then injury defaulted out. His 3-1 match with Fisher reminded me of, on a somewhat lesser scale, the sophomore Cody Gardner giving the bigger, experienced senior Jason Marshall all he could handle in the Ironman finals three years ago. This kid will be very good in a couple of years.
Nick Cook, the VA heavyweight, is very good. Kid is next to impossible to take down if you aren't Garrett Goebel.
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Discussion Topic: Some Ironman Questions/Random Thoughts
Steve Lester added to this discussion on December 9, 2007
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Dumas was also district champ with a win over the then sophomore Ben Kuhar. He was good technically and strong. He didn't have the mobility though and that cost him at state. Meder is very mobil and tough. I like his mindset. He got out to a nice sized lead on Adam Walls but Walls came back to take the lead himself. Meder didn't faulter and gutted it up to win it. He was in attack mode against Goebel as others have pointed out. I expect the Ironman has been a coming out party for him. No question to me that Meder is now high podium material for Columbus.
Cubberly didn't default his match with Condon. He finished it losing 6-1 and then defaulted subsequent matches to finish 6th. No question that that slamming out of bounds, with the score 0-0, hurt Cubberly's ribs/chest area. It hurt me watching it happen.
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Discussion Topic: Some Ironman Questions/Random Thoughts
Pat Costilow added to this discussion on December 9, 2007
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I am not denying that his senior year, Dumas was very good. I am just saying that Meder's performance this weekend was more impressive to me than was Dumas's Ironman title. Again, Meder is only a junior.
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Discussion Topic: Some Ironman Questions/Random Thoughts
Billy Painter added to this discussion on December 9, 2007
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160- I thought both Cheatham and Tate wrestled well Tate beating Gasber with 3 takedowns in the 3rd. And Cheatham beating Maserang and Kilroy. Yet both not close to placing.
215- Tommy Deroia is in his second year of wrestling and placed at the ironman
7th
. He was a 160 last year and is a small 215 this year forced up by Baily. Dominated the second seed first round!!!!!
Thanks pat about the Ramos comment. Also i lost to Goins in OT.
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Discussion Topic: Some Ironman Questions/Random Thoughts
Dan Cosimi added to this discussion on December 9, 2007
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- When it was 0-0, Cubberly had a deep bear hug locked up and it looked as if he'd get five from it, but Condon bridged very nicely and got out of it. They ended up out of bounds and somehow Cubberly's ribs got injured. By the looks of it, that isn't the type of injury someone can wrestle with. It looked bad. After that, Cubberly had no chance at an offense or a defense because he was so injured but he toughed it out and lost 6-1.
- Two of the most impressive wrestlers at this tournament were the champ at 145, John Burns (Cardinal Gibbons, NC), and the champ at 189, Joe Budi (Kaukauna, WI). Burns is a physical phenom. When we saw him defeat national #1 Mario Mason, an undefeated Ironman and Beast of the East champion last year, he took over the match with his athleticism. I made the comment "great shades of Darrion Caldwell" because that's exactly who this kid reminds me of, except that Caldwell is more technical. Budi had an absolutely dominating performance at 189 and when he got on top of Magrum in the third period he was brutal and went from a two-point lead to a 12-4 major decision victory. His scores before that were: pin in 1:50, pin in 2:55, pin in 1:47, and a 14-1 major decision in the semifinals. He could have gotten the Outstanding Wrestler award if not for a certain freshman.
- James Meder from Valley Forge had an outstanding performance here. He was a single-entry that was brought in just to fill out the weight class. On paper, he wasn't supposed to do what he did... but nobody told him that. This kid is very mobile for a heavyweight and has a tough mentality. The much bigger Goebel got mad after a while and was getting very physical, but Meder just kept on going and even had some chances for a takedown that were stifled by the out of bounds line. I'd be one to disagree on the comparison to Dumas. Can he beat the previous consensus #1 Orlando Scales? Yes. Is he now the favorite? It's difficult to say. Will he win it all? I don't know. That's why they wrestle the matches.
- Marc Bryan, Dan Genetin, Dan Kolodzik, and Zac Thomusseit all looked great in moving up multiple weights. Bryan had multiple big wins, Thomusseit placed third at 171, Genetin placed third at 125, and Kolodzik placed fourth defeating Kyle Lang and losing only to previous national #2 Palmer and #1 Johnston.
- Massillon Perry has a lineup crunch in the lower weights. With Sam White competing at 119, Dan Genetin at 125, and Seth Horner at 130 (and all of them doing very well), transfer state qualifier Mike Hillock is bumped out of the lineup. If White can make 112 it would be ideal for the lineup, but would it be a raw deal for him? Along with the extra weight cut, he'd go from being a big favorite to being a close favorite over Clark and Mitcheff.
- Wadsworth's Brad Squire is still undefeated throughout his high school career. He's gone through an entire freshman season plus an Ironman as a sophomore. That is amazing. Still, he'll likely have to contend with three-time state finalist Ryan Fields to win another state title and, probably, Kyle Lang (dropping from 135) at the sectional, district, and state level.
- National #1 David Taylor got revenge against Jamie Clark for handing him his only loss as a sophomore in their last meeting. Clark was game for another upset, but Taylor controlled the bout and won 7-1. They'll likely meet again this weekend at the Super 8 Duals at St. Edward.
- Monroeville freshman Hunter Stieber's title is getting less press than his brother Logan's match with David Taylor last year, but it shouldn't. Hunter had to go through a "who's who" at 103 to get through the bracket, defeating Massillon Perry's Nick Hannan 19-7, St. Paris Graham's Nick Brascetta with a pin in 2:31, Aurora returning state placer Ty Mitch 6-0, and St. Edward's Gus Sako 5-4, before clobbering Christianburg's Devin Carter 11-2 in the finals. Can Hunter Stieber go undefeated throughout his career? It is possible, but he has a long way to go.
- Congrats to fellow CVC competitors Johnny Papesh (6th), Ty Mitch (7th), and Billy Painter (2-2) on a very good showing at the Ironman.
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Last edited by Dan Cosimi on December 9, 2007; edited 1 time in total
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Discussion Topic: Some Ironman Questions/Random Thoughts
Pat Costilow added to this discussion on December 9, 2007
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Another thing that doesn't hurt, Billy, you have a great coach in Boardwine. He was the coach at US when I was there.
The thing that amazed me about Burns was that he didn't tire, period. The kid kept up a high pace, attacking, attacking, attacking, and didn't show one sign of fatigue.
Re Cubberly; rib injuries are no joke. I took a shot to the ribs in lacrosse me junior year (it was literally a shot- the guy took a shot on goal and it hit me flush in the ribs)- and I don't know how you could wrestle after something like that. When Cubberly took his second injury time, I figured he would default. He stuck it out, though. It is a shame, he was on fire early in the tournament.
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Discussion Topic: Some Ironman Questions/Random Thoughts
Steve Lester added to this discussion on December 9, 2007
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Quote from Pat Costilow's post:
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"I am not denying that his senior year, Dumas was very good. I am just saying that Meder's performance this weekend was more impressive to me than was Dumas's Ironman title. Again, Meder is only a junior."
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That's my take also. You say it more clearly. <thumbsup>
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Discussion Topic: Some Ironman Questions/Random Thoughts
Josh Lowe added to this discussion on December 9, 2007
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It was posted somewhere else that Jon Burns was actually originally out of the Chicagoland area and had youth training with the famed Harvey Twisters, so he may not be as raw as we think. However, it is that athleticism that wins him matches.
Meder might now move into the #1 slot in Division I at 285 barring upward movement by Orlando Scales - actually remove that might. Very impressive and had legitimate offense going against national #3 Goebel.
Condon signed somewhere in the early period - Old Dominion rings a bell to me, I'd have to look.
Staying at 160 is probably the right move for Bryan as that weight is pretty thin past Chris Kline. Maybe this will be the way he lives up to his "hype" from junior high.
I think Genetin may have found the right weight and environment to compete in this year after trying 112 last year and having the cut do him in. Great tournament for him with statement wins over Williams (2x VA state champ, Beast/Ironman placer) and Adamson (did everything under the sun pre-HS). He becomes the favorite at 125.
And among those not having as good of records, an eye should be kept on:
125# Pierce Harger (Moeller)
119# Ian Miller (Oak Harbor)
145# Zack Goins (Elyria)
--> and there are a boatload of others
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Discussion Topic: Some Ironman Questions/Random Thoughts
Dan Ransick added to this discussion on December 9, 2007
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Some thoughts from someone who couldn't make the 4 hour drive there but watch the videos on Flowrestling.
- Taylor when on is untouchable. He showed why he is the best 112 in the nation last night with this ability to take people down and then ride them perfectly.
- Meder has to become the consensus #1 with him beating Walls and taking Goebel to the wire. He has the size. Remember that Walls has always had Scales # from Jr. High. I know a lot can change but Meder seems like the #1 guy.
- Genetin looks like he could finally win that state title this year at 125. Perry has a good problem on there hands. White from the videos looks big at 119 and is the heavy favorite over Mattingly. He beat the DII favorite Neibert and beat Garafolo who beat Sergent.
- Sergent and Opfer are SOL this year. Either way someone will be Stieber's drill dummy in the finals.
- 130 looks to be a very hottly contested weight this year with Squire leading the way but Fields right there. I think that Horner and Lang are just a step back right now.
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Discussion Topic: Some Ironman Questions/Random Thoughts
Jason Bryant added to this discussion on December 9, 2007
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Pat,
Joe Budi signed with Old Dominion.
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Discussion Topic: Some Ironman Questions/Random Thoughts
Pat Costilow added to this discussion on December 9, 2007
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Wow, that's a good get for ODU. One of their coaches was sitting next to me for part of the tourney- guy knows where to come to scout talent.
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Discussion Topic: Some Ironman Questions/Random Thoughts
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on December 10, 2007
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Old Dominion, UVA and Virginia Tech are all doing a nice job. I know this is off topic but I'm really impressed with where these programs are headed.
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