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Discussion Topic: tOSU Buckeyes 2014/2015
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on March 23, 2014

Well, based on this fantastic national tournament and what we have seen this season out of the returning wrestlers and the wrestlers on RS, what are our current realistic thoughts on next season?

125: Tomasello - We don't have an apples to apples comparison with he and the top 4. Right now, based on what we saw this weekend and not having those comparison until he hits the B1G season, I have him at #4 coming into the season. I won't change that higher until I see him knock off Megaludis or Delgado. I think it's fair.

133: DiJulius: He caught the ENTIRE class off-guard with his style early this season. Unfortunately after his win at CKLV, the upper level guys were able to make adjustments and thwart his style. Now, a lot of those guys are graduating. t will be interesting to see what adjustment is made to his style over the Summer. What I love about Johnni is that he does have the right training attitude and he wants to be a champion and understands what wishing to be a champion won't get him there. So, I believe adjustments will be made and I believe he will be futher successful. But, as I said after CKLV, the onus is on Johnni to get consistent wins over top level guys during the B1G season. That onus is still on his shoulders. I am willing to say there is no excuse at all for him not to be a low AA at a minimum next season, but again, the onus is on his performance to prove he can hit the stars.

141: L Stieber - Logan is getting something in Zain Retherford that he desperately needs to keep his head in the game to win a 4th title…a legitimate threat. Retherford is what he needs and what he got. I don't think Logan will beat him 10-1 like he did Carter at any point. I believe Zain is that good and I believe Zain has an similar attitude and the right coaching and environment to continue to improve as Logan has. Look, it's a great thing for Logan and a great thing for USA wrestling. Let's root for Retherford to be the best he can be…it's good for our sport.

Right now we don't know if Carter will be back at 141. I suspect he will be and if he can stay healthy and train an entire season, he is more of a credible threat than he was last night. Carter is so talented and gutsy that he returns out of nowhere from a significant injury with less than optimal training due to that injury and wins the conference tournament and makes it to the NCAA finals. A healthy Carter is a big strong kid with good skills and again, he has the right attitude (not sure that he has the complete training advantages Logan and Zain have). Nonetheless, Logna, Zain, & Devan are your top 3 and it's probable a much better competative group than we want to give credit to. Logan is such a complete champion, he will win his 4th title and I think that last match will be closer than his match last night whether he wrestles Retherford or Carter.

149: Hunter Stieber - I'm comfortable placing him at #2 coming into the season. I'm assuming Tsirtsis will stay at 149 and we have known since HS that this kid is the real deal. I credit Tsirtsis a lot for overcoming his early season stumbles and being fantastic the past several weeks. I believe Hunter can open up offensively with Tsirtsis. The question is, what happens when they get on the mat? The onus is on Hunter's shoulders to take the number 1 spot from Tsirtsis. I think he can, but I'm keeping him at #2 until he gets that win along the way. Of course I want to say he will win the title, but let him show he can beat Tsirtsis 1st and then move him to #1.

157: Frankly, we really don't know whom we have here so what can be said? I'll let you all comment on this one. Demas? Low AA? The Mongoose? Low AA? So many questions….

165: Bo Jordan - During the 157 match last night there was mention that Dieringer is likely to move up to 165 next season. Assuming that, I have to put BoJo at #2. There is at least 1 round of 12 guy BoJo dispatched with relative ease this season (LeBlanc). So, again, I think he has to start the season at #2 and the onus is on his shoulders as well to show he is #1. I'm not sure if there is a chance for him to meet Dieringer prior to NCAAs next year….but I hope there is. I suspect these 2 are far ahead of the rest of the class, but we need to see Bo's work during the B1G season to verify that. I am comfortable giving him that nod, but admittedly, I'm a homer and have a long history with his family. So I suspect I have some rose tint to my glasses here.

174: Martin - This comes down to 2 things. 1. Martin getting healthy and staying healthy. 2. Martin taking about a 2 day break here and not leaving Columbus until his 1st match next season. Right now, I would say he has low to mid AA potential but he has to get healthy and he has to get consistent.

184: Courts - Kenny needs to be on the mat every day until the season starts with the RTC guys getting in shape….PERIOD. If he would just get his head right and train, adjust like a champion, and get in shape, there is no excuse for him not to be a HIGH AA. In fact I'll go so far as to say, if Kenny Courts doesn't become an NCAA champion it's because he flat out didn't want it. That is how gifted he is. He has no excuses….he just needs to do it. To date, history says he will not. So, realistically, he may be a low AA as is. Can he make himself better than"as is"?

197: Snyder - 2 man race! Cox and Synder in what will be a war for the next 3 seasons. Cox beat him 1-0, 1-0 the last time they tangled. Cox is a physical freak. What is not to like about him? So, how far has Snyder come in the last year? We have no real apples to apples comparison. Maybe he is so good now that he will make Cox look silly, but if that's the case…then Snyder will be an even better champion than our own Logan Stieber. Let's hope that's true, but we have to see that. So, once again, the onus is on Snyder to show us what he has. We know enough about him that I think it is safe to say Snyder is #2. Can't wait to see him on the mat.

285: Tavenello - Let's just put to bed any notion that Haines is going to be the starter here next year. Haines is good and may well prove to be better than Tav in the future, but not next year. This is Tav's weight. He is a gutsy round of 12 guy that peaked when it matter most. Tav needs to stay in Columbus this Summer and on the mat with Dlagnev and the crew. And he needs to hit the weight room even harder. While he may not become McClure, continued work on his conditioning and strength as an under-sized 285 is essential. Those are the keys to his confidence. That will open up the good skill set he has and let the adjustments he needs come to fruition. Tav is most certainly a low AA coming into the season. It's up to him where he goes from there. If you have not understood how much he has evolved through this season, you just don't understand his class or Tav himself. I'm not sure if he is ever a title contender, but he has more potential than many think. He just has to decide to keep pushing. He went 4-2 at the NCAAs, if that doesn't bolster your confidence in his potential…you're missing the boat ;-)

So, that leaves us with the following projected results for NCAAs 2015:

125: Tomasello #4
133: DiJulius: #6
141: L Stieber: #1
149: H. Stieber: #2
157: ???: NQ
165: B Jordan: #2
174: Martin: #6
184: Courts: #8
197: Snyder: #2
285: Tav: #7

That is a lot of points and will most certainly put them in contention for the title. Converting a couple of those #2 to #1 would go a long way to sealing the deal. And, all of this is with all things being equal, meaning a group that stays healthy. I whole bunch of unpredictable has to go right for these results to come to fruition. I guess the cool thing is knowing they have the talent to do this. It's up to them to prove it. I can't wait to watch it play out next season!



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Discussion Topic: tOSU Buckeyes 2014/2015
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 23, 2014

quite optimistic but it could play out.

157 will be either Demas or Micah Jordan, whoever it is he will be good.



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Discussion Topic: tOSU Buckeyes 2014/2015
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 23, 2014

Good analysis.

DiJulius...for his style to work better he must become a lock down rider on top.



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Discussion Topic: tOSU Buckeyes 2014/2015
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on March 23, 2014

Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:

"Good analysis.

DiJulius...for his style to work better he must become a lock down rider on top."



I agree. And again, the good news is that he has the attitude to make the adjustment. There is plenty of upside to JDJ!



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Discussion Topic: tOSU Buckeyes 2014/2015
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 23, 2014

Did a little research...

125: Nick Roberts split with Joey Dance, who took 4th....beat Earl Hall (8th)

133: DiJulius beat 3rd place Colon and twice defeated 8th place Brewer.

149: Hunter beat placer James English.

184: Courts split with placer Ophir Bernstein. He pinned Bernstein in Vegas but lost to him in rd of 12.

141: Logan TF'd placer Dutton, went 2-1 with Retherford, MD'd Carter.



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Discussion Topic: tOSU Buckeyes 2014/2015
Ron Hreha added to this discussion on March 23, 2014

So is a Mark Martin red-shirt and Joey Davis transfer in at 174 a pipe dream? I've read about Joey's potential grade issues on this site. Lack of available wrestling money was also mentioned. Davis has to project higher than #6 and could be the difference maker in the hunt for the team title.



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Discussion Topic: tOSU Buckeyes 2014/2015
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on March 23, 2014

Quote from Ron Hreha's post:

"So is a Mark Martin red-shirt and Joey Davis transfer in at 174 a pipe dream? I've read about Joey's potential grade issues on this site. Lack of available wrestling money was also mentioned. Davis has to project higher than #6 and could be the difference maker in the hunt for the team title."



I just haven't heard this from a credible source. So, I guess when Tom Ryan announces Joey Davis is wrestling for the Buckeyes, I'll believe it. I'm all for it....



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Discussion Topic: tOSU Buckeyes 2014/2015
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on March 23, 2014

Roberts beating Dance is why I was comfortable putting NaTo at 4. And like I said a lot of unpredictable things have to go right for this team to win a title, but at least they are in position to be in the conversation.



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Discussion Topic: tOSU Buckeyes 2014/2015
Josh Lowe added to this discussion on March 23, 2014

125: I think Tomasello CAN come in an earn All-American honors. However, it's no guarantee. Keep in mind that when Nate and Darian Cruz wrestled in the Dapper Dan, it was a razor tight match (Tomasello did win), and Darian just finished seventh. From high school history, I would peg Dance as better than Nate.

133: DiJulius feels like a round of 12 type (that's what the large sample size has shown IMO). Two things I would point to, at least from my watching of some matches: (1) bottom position (2) initial neutral defense.

141: Logan is Logan. No more needs saying.

149: Hunter was a national semifinalist twice already, so a mid-to-high placement is a reasonable peg to start. Can he win a national title? Yes. To guarantee it? No.

157: Demas was round of 12 last year with a slight over-performance to his overall season. I would forecast round of 12 to a lower half AA.

165: Bo Jordan comes in with immediate impact potential. I would forecast an AA finish. Where on the spectrum is harder to peg until we get legitimate "sample size" in the early part of next year.

174: Martin has round of 12 potential. What I've seen in two seasons so far doesn't suggest an AA. Could that change? Yes. I'll take a "show me" approach.

184: Courts was round of 12 this year with a highly winnable round of 12 match, but didn't capitalize on it. I think that's a theme with him, that inconsistency. I'd love to say that he can mid-place at nationals, but who knows.

197: The potential for Snyder is obvious. However, before we crown him as the national finalist opposite of Cox next year, let's not forget some other excellent wrestlers return (Schiller, McIntosh for instance).

285: Tavanello slightly over-performed into the round of 12 this year. I think a round of 12, with outside chance of low AA, is what one can expect next year.



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Discussion Topic: tOSU Buckeyes 2014/2015
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 23, 2014

Quote from Josh Lowe's post:

"125: I think Tomasello CAN come in an earn All-American honors. However, it's no guarantee. Keep in mind that when Nate and Darian Cruz wrestled in the Dapper Dan, it was a razor tight match (Tomasello did win), and Darian just finished seventh. From high school history, I would peg Dance as better than Nate.

133: DiJulius feels like a round of 12 type (that's what the large sample size has shown IMO). Two things I would point to, at least from my watching of some matches: (1) bottom position (2) initial neutral defense.

141: Logan is Logan. No more needs saying.

149: Hunter was a national semifinalist twice already, so a mid-to-high placement is a reasonable peg to start. Can he win a national title? Yes. To guarantee it? No.

157: Demas was round of 12 last year with a slight over-performance to his overall season. I would forecast round of 12 to a lower half AA.

165: Bo Jordan comes in with immediate impact potential. I would forecast an AA finish. Where on the spectrum is harder to peg until we get legitimate "sample size" in the early part of next year.

174: Martin has round of 12 potential. What I've seen in two seasons so far doesn't suggest an AA. Could that change? Yes. I'll take a "show me" approach.

184: Courts was round of 12 this year with a highly winnable round of 12 match, but didn't capitalize on it. I think that's a theme with him, that inconsistency. I'd love to say that he can mid-place at nationals, but who knows.

197: The potential for Snyder is obvious. However, before we crown him as the national finalist opposite of Cox next year, let's not forget some other excellent wrestlers return (Schiller, McIntosh for instance).

285: Tavanello slightly over-performed into the round of 12 this year. I think a round of 12, with outside chance of low AA, is what one can expect next year."



Buzz kill.



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Discussion Topic: tOSU Buckeyes 2014/2015
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on March 23, 2014

I dunno, he essentially said the same things I did….the onus is on their shoulders to prove. Which is true.



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Discussion Topic: tOSU Buckeyes 2014/2015
Mike Taylor added to this discussion on March 23, 2014

My thoughts were very similar to yours, Josh. Hunter certainly has a formidable opponent in Tsirtis next year. That kid is a warrior. Good news is they will see each other before nationals so we will get a taste before the big dance.

Concerning the pipe dream of Martin taking a red shirt and Davis being brought in, I don't see that occurring. Ryan has said you have to earn a red shirt. Has Martin done enough to make Ryan believe a red shirt wouldn't be wasted if given to him? That is something I don't know since I'm not in the room and don't know what level of commitment to excellence by Martin that Ryan is seeing. It would be awesome to get a guy like Davis in the room if for no other reason than to build depth and toughness within the room. We can dream I guess.

I am most excited to see how Bo, Nate, and Kyle do next year when the matches mean something to the team. I can't wait to see how they respond to the grind. Most importantly, how do they match up against the top guys in their weight. I'm trying to keep my expectations in check as the college game can be so unpredictable and a Logan Stieber doesn't exist in every class. Expecting Logan like results out of these guys is a bit much until they prove they are deserving of those lofty standards.
Regardless, I'm excited for next year. Is it wrestling season yet?



Last edited by Mike Taylor on March 23, 2014; edited 1 time in total

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Discussion Topic: tOSU Buckeyes 2014/2015
Jason L. Jackson added to this discussion on March 23, 2014

Looking at next year:

Ohio State scored 56 points this year with 20 graduating. That leaves 36 points coming back.

125 - Nick scored .5 points. I think you could put Nate in no worse than 6th personally. Peters scored 9 this year taking sixth.
+8.5

133 - Johnni scored 2.5 points. 5 AAs graduate. I think it is reasonable to project him to 5 points next year.
+2.5

141 - Logan scored 26.5 points this year. I think he will score the same next year.
Even

149 - Ian scored 0 points. Hunter should be top 3. If you put him in Ian's spot this year he is in the finals. I will project him with 2nd place points.
+16

157 - No qualifier, therefore, no points. Let's assume Demas or Micah is R12.
+3

165 - No qualifier, therefore, no points. Let's put Bo 3rd to be conservative, behind Dieringer and Sulzer.
+19.5

174 - Martin scored .5 points. It's no secret that he wasn't healthy. A healthy Martin probably gets 1-2 more wins.
+1.5

184 - Courts scored 2 points this year. 4 AAs graduate. I'll put him at 8th.
+3.5

197 - Hef scored 20 points this year. 4 of those were "unearned" because of med. forfeits. If Snyder is as good as Cox, and there's no reason to believe that he won't be, then he should be a top 4 placer. I'm taking out Hef's bonus.
-4

285 - Nick scored 6 points, including 2 falls. I'll project him to be the same.
Even

Total = 106.5
This year's winning score = 109.5

With reasonable projections Ohio State is a national title contender next year. With Tomasello, Hunter, Demas and Bo in the lineup this year they would have been national title contenders.

While I understand being conservative in projecting the redshirts and true frosh, we had a true frosh champ, a RS frosh champ, and 11 frosh placers. I think Ohio State breaks 100 next year, and, depending on how Minny and Iowa reload, they may be the only ones.

Oh, and if somehow the Iceman cometh, then the Bucks may beat PSU's score from this year.



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Discussion Topic: tOSU Buckeyes 2014/2015
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 23, 2014

a very cerebral analysis by Jason Jackson, i'm buying it because its so well thought out..



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Discussion Topic: tOSU Buckeyes 2014/2015
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 23, 2014

JLJ: I'm currently enrolled in a business class and asked to analyze Mister Brisket's potential growth based on changes I intend to make. That sort of analysis is the type you use to argue for a loan(with financial projections included). Nicely done.



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