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Discussion Topic: Bucks Ranked 4th in WIN Preseason Rankings
Jamie Teel added to this discussion on September 4, 2014

I also agree with being "cautious" with your rankings of freshman, but to exclude them altogether is almost an unwillingness to do your job. if a service wants to put Snyder in the 10-12 range until he starts majoring those guys so be it =). Nate T. at 16 is a ranker being overly cautious ....but it will all be proven shortly. It will be exciting!



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Discussion Topic: Bucks Ranked 4th in WIN Preseason Rankings
Christian Pyles added to this discussion on September 4, 2014

If you rank a true freshman, you basically are projecting.

Projection=the enemy of true "rankings" a process based act. If you project, I think you're rankings are suspect.

A RS Freshman is different, Bo, Tomasello, etc all deserve to be ranked based on their accomplishments in college matches.

Snyder doesn't have one, so he will be unranked. J'den was top 10 by November and began the year unranked. It doesn't take long for the talent to climb quickly and I don't anticipate it'll take long for Kyle and other True Freshman who will start this year.



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Discussion Topic: Bucks Ranked 4th in WIN Preseason Rankings
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on September 4, 2014

To add to the discussion:

http://www.associatedwrestlingpress.com/news_article/show/415478?referrer_id=1024552



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Discussion Topic: Bucks Ranked 4th in WIN Preseason Rankings
Jamie Teel added to this discussion on September 4, 2014

I APPRECIATE all of C.P.'s info and opinions he shares with us. Its very difficult and time consuming to collect so much information, but on this "I strenuously object". (movie reference) All rankings are projections! Are you not assuming a natural curve of improvement on any wrestler? Are you not projecting a wrestler to continue to work everyday? How can anyone do a team ranking giving tosu a zero at 197 and feel they've compiled accurate information? Kyle Snyder has plenty of accolades to be "projected" into the top 12 at the very least. He has split with Cox and beaten Burak and thrown a Junior World Championship in for good measure......just sayin.



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Discussion Topic: Bucks Ranked 4th in WIN Preseason Rankings
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on September 4, 2014

You "strenuously" object? Is that how it works now. You object once to timely the records show. You keep after the way you did and it makes us look like we're afraid of the doctor. Chriminey, you even have the judge calling him an expert!

Great. Now I'm going to have to order Chinese, grab my bat, and watch that movie!



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Discussion Topic: Bucks Ranked 4th in WIN Preseason Rankings
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on September 4, 2014

Aside: These various rankings include Megaludis and Retherford. Aren't both likely redshirts?



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Discussion Topic: Bucks Ranked 4th in WIN Preseason Rankings
Justin Hayes added to this discussion on September 4, 2014

Quote from Mark Niemann's post:

"You "strenuously" object? Is that how it works now. You object once to timely the records show. You keep after the way you did and it makes us look like we're afraid of the doctor. Chriminey, you even have the judge calling him an expert!

Great. Now I'm going to have to order Chinese, grab my bat, and watch that movie!"



Niemann....Went! : )



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Discussion Topic: Bucks Ranked 4th in WIN Preseason Rankings
Christian Pyles added to this discussion on September 5, 2014

Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:

"Aside: These various rankings include Megaludis and Retherford. Aren't both likely redshirts?"



Mega yes, Z pain no.



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Discussion Topic: Bucks Ranked 4th in WIN Preseason Rankings
Jason L. Jackson added to this discussion on September 5, 2014

Interesting. C.P., don't know what kind of inside info you have, but does Cael believe that Zain can beat Logan?

I guess I don't understand redshirting one guy so that he could possibly win 1 title while not redshirting another that could possibly win 3.

Either way, Mega is the more important one for the team race as that arguable moves Tomasello up one spot, although I think PSU has a better backup option at 125 (Conaway).



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Discussion Topic: Bucks Ranked 4th in WIN Preseason Rankings
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on September 5, 2014

im told Megaludas will take an olympic RS year after the RS this season, so he will be missing for 2 years from their lineup.



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Discussion Topic: Bucks Ranked 4th in WIN Preseason Rankings
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on September 5, 2014

JLJ: Conaway is an excellent back up. Would love to have that problem.

Remember that one time a back up entered the B1Gs, qualified for NCAAs, and then placed 6th, effectively helping his team win it's fourth national title? That was great.



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Discussion Topic: Bucks Ranked 4th in WIN Preseason Rankings
Ben Golden added to this discussion on September 6, 2014

Quote from Rex Holman's post:

"Totally agree with Bob and Jamie. If you are going to make any prediction at all, why not encompass as many variables as possible.

There is a time to evaluate past practice and understand why you do it a certain way. Sometimes the reason for having done something becomes irrelevant or plain nonsense steeped in tradition."



See, I have a different general view on rankings; I don't want them to be predictions. At this point, I don't care much for predictions. They never count for anything, most of the time the predictor doesn't know what he's talking about, and if he does, even the "experts" are wrong a lot.

Thus, I'd rather see rankings be an (attempted) objective assessment of what the wrestlers have already done in the relevant past rather than what they might do in the future.



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Discussion Topic: Bucks Ranked 4th in WIN Preseason Rankings
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on September 6, 2014

heres some opinions from TheMat forum re WIN rankings:

Posted 03 September 2014 - 12:58 AM
NEswitch, on 03 Sept 2014 - 09:34 AM, said:

Preseason Rankings are out! Thoughts....????

I would say it was a sloppy job with the individual rankings. Guys that transferred--months ago--listed with their old school. Guys coming off redshirt that should be ranked(and I am not talking about red shirt freshman--that Win is not including), guys at wrong weight classes. If there are 5 ranking services---Win would be a solid 5th.

#3 Stove_Pipe
Gold Member

Posted 03 September 2014 - 01:07 AM

I do not think WIN contacted coaches about lineups, prior to doing the preseason rankings. Yeah, some guys have transferred and numerous reportedly are changing weights or likely redshirting. I think you need to be in contact with the Div I programs during the off-season, in order to have accurate preseason rankings. If the ranker is not following or finding out what's going on in the off-season, probably better not to try to preseason rank.



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Discussion Topic: Bucks Ranked 4th in WIN Preseason Rankings
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on September 16, 2014

Rumors say yes Marstellar is going 157 isn't that a big cut? I guess he is trying to avoid Bo.



I'm kidding about avoiding Bo



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Discussion Topic: Bucks Ranked 4th in WIN Preseason Rankings
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on September 16, 2014

Quote from James Kessen's post:

"Rumors say yes Marstellar is going 157 isn't that a big cut? I guess he is trying to avoid Bo.



I'm kidding about avoiding Bo"



I logged in to comment on this...

I wonder if he is helping the Cowboys position themselves to make a run. With 5 to 7 teams all challenging for a title, perhaps this is what they need.

I find it hard to believe that he will perform at a high level all season long, and still have enough to perform over a three day period at the NCAA in order to maximize points for his team. For his sake, and John Smith's, I hope he does it.

Iowa, Minnesota, Ohio State, Oklahoma State, Cornell and can we throw in Penn State and Edinboro??? I feel like I'm forgetting someone...

Anywho, it's going to be a great season!



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