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Discussion Topic: Flowrestling/C.P.'s Rankings
Jason L. Jackson added to this discussion on September 26, 2014

I assume many of you have looked, but our very own Christian Pyles has posted the first five weight rankings on Flowrestling.

http://www.flowrestling.org/asics-florankings/college/125

In addition, beneath each set of rankings is a link to Preachin' with C.P., a video going over his ranking process.

So far he has the Bucks ranked as follows:

125 - Tomasello is ranked 12th, but he is the first person C.P. talks about in his video. He says he expects Nate to be top 6 by the end of the year.

133 - JDJ is ranked 7th, which is probably about right. C.P. lumps him in with the guys in the 6-10 range.

141 - He has this Stieber guy ranked 1st. Not sure who he is.

149 - He has Hunter ranked 2nd, and says it is a toss up between he and Carter. Says he thinks Hunter has the most impressive wins of anyone in the class.

157 - C.P. ranks Demas 6th and said that he is significantly underrated. The flo twitter posting shows a picture of Demas and states "Is this the most underrated wrestler in the country?"

So, he has all 5 Buckeyes so far as AAs. I am not happy about this. I have NOTHING at all to complain about! He's giving the Bucks nothing but love, how the hell am I supposed to call him out in the comments or on twitter.

Maybe 165-285 will give me some reason to complain.



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Discussion Topic: Flowrestling/C.P.'s Rankings
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on September 27, 2014

Who is Christian Pyles? :-)

JLJ: sensing the same angst as you, I resorted to "complaining" about Edinboro. They had four ranked in the first four with three all top5? Maybe top 10. But they are looking quite strong. I wonder what the top half will have and if the Fighting Scots can break the top 5 mark as a team.

I was communicating with fellow #DotNet-er Dan Ransick about what appears to be some success for the Scots (all thanks to Colt Sponseller, I'm sure) and the fact that Clarion needs to step it up. 3 coaches in three years...has it ever worked out??? F&M just received a $5 million endowment. Shall I type that again??? What is Clarion doing???

Whatevs.



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Discussion Topic: Flowrestling/C.P.'s Rankings
Pat Altvater added to this discussion on September 27, 2014

Actually, I like these predictions from C.P.!

I hadn't commented much on the WIN predictions, because I didn't feel like they were giving the bucks the attention that they deserve, so I was just going to wait until they earned the accolades on the mat.

As to the comment on JDJ here, I have a little higher hopes for him this year than 7th, but time will tell. To my judgement, the only person in the class clearly above him is Schopp, and I think that would be a good match. Most of the other guys ranked above him he has already beaten once. And he beat Brewer twice, once by pin. The majority of the match-ups that gave Johnni problems last year are seniors that are gone!

I like that C.P. projects all five of OSU's lower weight classes in the top 8. I have also, but have suppressed my expectations a bit from being 'too over-optimistic'.

As for the five lower weights, almost all of the predictions I have seen have at least BoJo, Snyder, and Courts as AA's, which should project OSU with 8 total AA's. That would be a pretty productive season.

However, I don't completely count out Martin and Tavenello either, as both of those guys are probably projected between 10th and 13th in their weight classes.

This should comprise one heck of a 'duals team' this year, if we can keep everyone healthy!



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Discussion Topic: Flowrestling/C.P.'s Rankings
Ben Golden added to this discussion on September 27, 2014

Pat, an important distinction, these are NOT predictions.



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Discussion Topic: Flowrestling/C.P.'s Rankings
Pat Altvater added to this discussion on September 27, 2014

Quote from Ben Golden's post:

"Pat, an important distinction, these are NOT predictions."



Ben:

Understood, these are 'Preliminary Rankings', at a given point in time, prior to any actual competition, and are all subject to change as the matches begin.

But, on the other hand, aren't these predictions, based on the current information available?

I realize that every ranking service has differing rules as to who is avaialble to placed on these lists. Obviously 'Redshirt Freshmen' are available on Flo, but were not included in WIN's TPI. And C.P. has stated that true freshmen are not included here, therefore Kyle Snyder will not be included in FLO's rankings at this pre-season time frame. - Until a little later into the season when there is some NCAA match experience for comparison.

I am really looking forward to see the early matches, but especially to see how the bucks perform at the CKLV tournament in early December. Some of the weight classes there will be really strong, and we will begin to see how our talent matches up to the national expectations.



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Discussion Topic: Flowrestling/C.P.'s Rankings
Ben Golden added to this discussion on September 29, 2014

Nope. These attempt to order guys based purely on past performance, with an emphasis on recent results. They aren't meant to project forward in time.



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Discussion Topic: Flowrestling/C.P.'s Rankings
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on September 29, 2014

165 rankings are out. Give a look. Check out #4 & #17. #ShowcaseShowdown

http://www.flowrestling.org/asics-florankings/college/165



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Discussion Topic: Flowrestling/C.P.'s Rankings
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on September 29, 2014

Quote from Ben Golden's post:

"Nope. These attempt to order guys based purely on past performance, with an emphasis on recent results. They aren't meant to project forward in time."



^^^That! C.P. knows Bo will move up. He is simply letting these guys prove themselves. About as fair as it gets.



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Discussion Topic: Flowrestling/C.P.'s Rankings
Dan Ransick added to this discussion on September 29, 2014

C.P. lays it all out on the table with the preachin segment. I like the rationale behind doing this as it keeps everything very transparent. I wish the seeding committee did this...



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Discussion Topic: Flowrestling/C.P.'s Rankings
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on September 29, 2014

C-Py's #BuckeyeLove can be traced to us on the #DotNet. ...clearly!

Michael "HotRod" Rodriguez is the last hold-out.



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Discussion Topic: Flowrestling/C.P.'s Rankings
Justin Hayes added to this discussion on September 29, 2014

"Mark Niemann"C-Py's #BuckeyeLove can be traced to us on the #DotNet. ...clearly!

Michael "HotRod" Rodriguez is the last hold-out."

He will eventually succumb to Stockholm Syndrome, by which he grows to love his captors.

As a result, he will change his handle to "Beloved Runner-Up", embrace the Buckeye Nation, and be affectionately called "Bru" (pronounced like, "Come at me, Bru...")



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Discussion Topic: Flowrestling/C.P.'s Rankings
Steve Lester added to this discussion on September 29, 2014

Rankings are summaries of past results. They are not supposed to be predictions. I mostly concur with that viewpoint.

When the ranker actually sees wrestlers in action it would seem to take a very conscious effort to not let that influence decision-making.

This also means that the concept of "upsets" are not necessarily tied to rankings, though most of the time they are (rightly or wrongly).



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Discussion Topic: Flowrestling/C.P.'s Rankings
Pat Altvater added to this discussion on September 30, 2014

Quote from Ben Golden's post:

"Nope. These attempt to order guys based purely on past performance, with an emphasis on recent results. They aren't meant to project forward in time."



Ben: Couldn't the same be said about all rankings and predictions. - The two are always very closely tied together.

As an example, when Logan was defeated on a cold night in State College by freshman Zain Retherford, after a long bus ride, while recovering from the flu, everyone knew that the result was abnormal, and that Zain would pay for it in future matches. The next ranking dropped Logan to 3rd or 4th, which totally discounted his dominant history over this class. - Even after Logan beat ZR at the BIG10's he couldn't regain the #1 seed.

These lower rankings held down Logan's ranking into NCAA seeds, which are in a sense 'predicitions!. Logan was tough enough that the lower seed did not hinder his progress through the tournament.

RPI and some of the other ratings services are 'predictive' in nature as they take in to account the strength of competition, but they are still rankings!



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Discussion Topic: Flowrestling/C.P.'s Rankings
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on September 30, 2014

Pat A:
When true frosh Hunter beat Kellen Russell, was it because Russell was hurt and sick? Or, maybe, did Hunter present him with some new challenges for which he was a bit unprepared at that particular time. Especially because they had not wrestled previously.

Apply the correct answer to that question to Retherford v Stieber round one.



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Discussion Topic: Flowrestling/C.P.'s Rankings
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on September 30, 2014

Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:

"Pat A:
When true frosh Hunter beat Kellen Russell, was it because Russell was hurt and sick? Or, maybe, did Hunter present him with some new challenges for which he was a bit unprepared at that particular time. Especially because they had not wrestled previously.

Apply the correct answer to that question to Retherford v Stieber round one."



Hank... Certainly you are wiser than this??? When a Buckeye defeats someone who is "supposed to be" better, it is a foreshadowing of things to come! And should a Buckeye lose to any opponent, well, surely you know the reasons! Sick, injured, fatigued, etc.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled program.



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