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Discussion Topic: OSU ranked #2 in both duals and tourney on new InterMat Rankings
John DiJulius added to this discussion on October 26, 2014
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"While I'm not a "fan" of Ohio State, I've watched most of these wrestlers for years and I love that I get to watch them have success at the next level. It's hard not to root for them as individuals after watching them has high schoolers...and I'd be watching Snyder with great interest regardless of what school he chose. He's just that kind of talent that any fan of the would want to watch.
I will say that part of me is pulling for the Buckeyes to win the title. It's been a long time coming and Coach Ryan and Coach Rosselli have done all the right things. It's good for college wrestling to have a real dog fight in the team race. It's a new era where there are a handful of the teams can win every year. And Ohio State should be one of those teams every year. High school wrestling is just too good in this state and there's just too much culture here for the flagship university not to be in the think of the national title hunt year in and year out.
I for one, am truly excited to watch this season play out."
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Sounds like a Buckeye's fan to me. Buckeye nation welcomes you!
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Discussion Topic: OSU ranked #2 in both duals and tourney on new InterMat Rankings
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on October 26, 2014
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Here, here, John!!! Three cheers for our newest member!!! Welcome, Michael.
What next...season tickets!?!?!
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Discussion Topic: OSU ranked #2 in both duals and tourney on new InterMat Rankings
Justin Hayes added to this discussion on October 26, 2014
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He's breaking down.
He'll eventually change his moniker to "Thankful Runner-Up".
Pandemonium ensues. : )
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Discussion Topic: OSU ranked #2 in both duals and tourney on new InterMat Rankings
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on October 26, 2014
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You people are impossible.
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Discussion Topic: OSU ranked #2 in both duals and tourney on new InterMat Rankings
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on October 26, 2014
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"You people are impossible."
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Guilty as charged.
BTW: the way I see it...
1) MINN
2a) Iowa
2b) Ohio State ...by the slimmest of margins.
#GetcherColdCuts
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Discussion Topic: OSU ranked #2 in both duals and tourney on new InterMat Rankings
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on October 26, 2014
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Quote from Mark Niemann's post:
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"
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"You people are impossible."
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Guilty as charged.
BTW: the way I see it...
1) MINN
2a) Iowa
2b) Ohio State ...by the slimmest of margins.
#GetcherColdCuts"
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If that is the way it ends up, several wrestlers on Iowa and Minnesota would need to exceed expectations and several wrestlers on the Ohio State squad would have to under achieve...like I asked Hank, where do you see that? If, as everyone is saying, Tomesello, Jordan and Snyder are likely to out-perform their current ranking, then someone's underachieve for you and others to put teams in front of them.
When you look at the totality of their careers, guys like Demas, Courts, Martin, Tavenello and DiJulius are ranked appropriately. So what's the rationale with putting Iowa and Minnesota ahead of them?
Just wondering.
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Discussion Topic: OSU ranked #2 in both duals and tourney on new InterMat Rankings
Justin Hayes added to this discussion on October 27, 2014
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"You people are impossible."
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Admitting you have a problem is the first step in any recovery.
We'll keep firmly, but lovingly, pursuing what we know to be best for you.
(One of the foundational pillars in Neimann's Stalking: 101 course; good stuff!)
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Discussion Topic: OSU ranked #2 in both duals and tourney on new InterMat Rankings
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on October 27, 2014
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"
When you look at the totality of their careers, guys like Demas, Courts, Martin, Tavenello and DiJulius are ranked appropriately. So what's the rationale with putting Iowa and Minnesota ahead of them?
Just wondering."
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How dare you expect folks to have something more than a "gut feeling" to justify their picks :-D
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Discussion Topic: OSU ranked #2 in both duals and tourney on new InterMat Rankings
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on October 27, 2014
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My "rankings" would also take history into account. Over the last 6-8 years, the top teams have consistently been Minny, PSU, Okie State and Iowa. The Bucks and Cornell have probably been next best.
Seedings are interesting to consider but let's also keep in mind that the Bucks have only once had five AA's and that was Hellickson's 3rd place squad of 2003 or 2004. Ryan has had two runnerup finishes but never more than 4. Bucks will likely need at least 6 to win it.
No one has any idea yet how BoJo and Snyder will fare against upper echelon comp. Snyder is a superstud but has been primarily a freestyler. He's also wrestling at a lighter weight than we've seen him. BoJo has been terrific but last year he didn't have a single huge win...let alone several. And Tomasello has yet to be seen against top competitors at 125 like Dance and Peters let alone Garrett or Delgado.
Minny lineup will feature five former AA's; Iowa returns 4; Cornell 3; Okie State 3; PSU 4. Bucks have Logan and Hunter and then a ton of potential. But regardless of pre-season rankings, those other 8 wrestlers are either new to the lineup or have yet to make it onto the pedestal at NCAA's. Bucks have a lot of possibilities...but don't you think Iowa, Minny and PSU feel the same?
No...Bucks should not even be ranked #2 IMO. Not yet. Let's at least see what happens in Vegas. That will give us some idea.
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Discussion Topic: OSU ranked #2 in both duals and tourney on new InterMat Rankings
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on October 27, 2014
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Discussion Topic: OSU ranked #2 in both duals and tourney on new InterMat Rankings
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on October 27, 2014
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I would say that even after Vegas, even though rankings may adjust, the fact of the matter is Ohio State is a team of 5+5. Let's break it down...
The first 5 are guys everyone is talking about. And I'm cool with that. As a member of the "I Heart Kyle "Snyderman" Snyder" fan club, and President of the "I Heart BoJo" fan club, I am a fan of them and want to see them do well. Heck, if Nate Tomasello is willing to wait around another 15 years for a spouse, I'd gladly at least introduce him to my daughter. But the fact of the matter still stands that these three wrestlers have yet to experience a January and February in the B1G. Consider Adam Coon (UofM) from last year. HE WAS ON FIYA!!!!!!! defeating Telford (Iowa) and 2x NC Nelson (MINN). How did B1Gs end up for him? And Nationals??? In my opinion, he is the rule, not the exception.
Do we really want to bring back the Colt Sponseller threads??? I don't, but let's look at at least one lesson learned from the discussions...earning AA status in the D-I NCAA tournament is no walk in the park.
Hunter and Logan Stiebler are the other two of that first group of five. Both have earned AA status so anything outside of that would be underachieving (caveat of injury).
The other group of five are DiJulius, Demas, Martin, Courts, and Tavanello. All are very good, and make the Buckeyes (certainly in a dual meet) very strong. But for as good as all five of them are, and they are good, they have 0 All-American honors collectively.
If you would have told me Josh Demas was not going to AA during the 2012/13 season, I would have looked at you wonky-eyed! Then, he was defeated by DSJ and then got romped by a kid who, although a top-8 seed, I thought he could have beaten, based on the year he was having. (Name escapes me, but I'm pretty sure Josh was shut out.)
And once again I was taught the cold, hard fact that rankings mean very little and even less at #STL2015.
Come on guys. We're better than this. It's all practice up to the B1Gs and NCAAs.
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Discussion Topic: OSU ranked #2 in both duals and tourney on new InterMat Rankings
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on October 27, 2014
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Discussion Topic: OSU ranked #2 in both duals and tourney on new InterMat Rankings
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on October 27, 2014
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While I agree that recent and not-so-recent history say Ohio State doesn't win NCAA titles, but paradigms change in sports all the time. Five years ago, Penn State was a solid program (a lot like Ohio State), and now they've won four straight. There are no "super teams" and contrary to the opinions of some, there is no NEXT Dan Gable. For the first time in my 30 years or so of watching college wrestling, there is true parody in our sport. While Minnesota, Oklahoma State and Iowa have the program tradition, no one on those teams has ever been part of an NCAA team title. Ohio State has as good a chance as anyone, better if you look at the rankings.
"They can't win the Big One" is said about everyone and every team or coach until they do. I've heard it about Bobby Bowden, Steve Spurrier and Tom Osborne (Nebraska) in college football. Bill Belichick, Dick Vermeil in the pros. The list is long and distinguished of guys who couldn't win it...and then they did. I can remember hearing how John Gramuglia and the Wadsworth Grizzlies couldn't beat the championship experience of St. Edward...that Eds would find a way to win in come tourney timne. The fact was, Wadsworth's team was just better that year.
On paper, Ohio State's team is better (and that's with the freshman being undervalued). If I was a Buckeye fan I would embrace a front-runner status, not shy away from it. You're the team to beat, and these other teams traditions be damned. Ohio State should feel slighted by InterMat's nonsensical rankings that have them second in team races but first based on their own individual rankings. It's like InterMat is building in Ohio State choking. It goes back what Pat Altvater said in his original post. Either they're this good, or they're not. InterMat can't have it both ways. Either their individual rankings are wrong and they know it or, their team rankings are wrong and they know it.
One thing I will disagree on with Hank is how much you'll know or not know after Vegas. There will be an ebb and flow to this season. Duals are going to be lost and no one NOT named Logan Stieber is going undefeated. Rookies may come out of the gate fast with big wins in Vegas and then come back to the pack with loses in bouts many think they should win. They may hit the wall Adam Coon or Kellen Russel style or they may be surprise at NCAAs like Joey Dance last year. Even if they fall flat in Vegas, that doesn't mean they won't be ready for prime time come Big Tens and NCAAs.
Anyway, embrace it Buckeye fans. Seasons like these don't come around often.
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Discussion Topic: OSU ranked #2 in both duals and tourney on new InterMat Rankings
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on October 27, 2014
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Apparently, we were typing at the same time. Although I am less likely to embrace any status or monicker given by rankers, I will state that I will support the Buckeyes all the way to #STL2015.
Excellent post, though. It seems we agree on a few points.
*parity - but for this site, I like parody!!! ;-)
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Discussion Topic: OSU ranked #2 in both duals and tourney on new InterMat Rankings
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on October 27, 2014
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Ha! Parity, not parody, got it. I'm writing from my phone. Gotta love technology.
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