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Discussion Topic: Bucks v Lehigh
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on February 22, 2015

Biggest issue since Tom Ryan's arrival in Columbus has been the lack of development of wrestlers in the program who aren't stud recruits. There have been a few exceptions but not enough.

Name a few kids he hasn't developed? The same could be said about Cael and numerous other coaches. Name me one coach who is winning without top notch recruits? and I don't mean duals I mean national titles. Cael didn't win anything without Taylor, Ruth and Wright and they were the same type of recruit as Logan or Bo.

At some point the kids need to take some responsibility you either want it or you don't.

If OSU does ever get rid of Ryan they can just come on here to find there next head coach.



Last edited by Jim Kessen on February 22, 2015; edited 1 time in total

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Discussion Topic: Bucks v Lehigh
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on February 22, 2015

Quote from James Kessen's post:

"

If OSU does ever get rid of Ryan they can just come on here to find there next head coach."



Thank you James Kessen! A lot of expert coaches here, even if they have never been on the college mat or coached at the college level ;-)

If only college wrestling were as simple in life as it must appear to be on paper...from coaching, to recruiting, to training, to finishing takedowns. Easy as pie. You all might notice that those whom have been in the situation are quietest about what Tom Ryan and the Buckeyes should do.

These discussions are fun. But try to put yourself in the shoes of all of the folks you are speculating about before you draw hard fast lines about what NEEDS to be done. It's far more complex than all of the "experts" are giving credit to the machine that is the Ohio State University Wrestling Team.



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Discussion Topic: Bucks v Lehigh
Jeff Reid added to this discussion on February 22, 2015

Quote from David Brown's post:

"How is there no place for religion in public life Hank? What does that mean?
And Jeff, how does one make a logical leap or wonder out loud if Tom Ryan's faith is a detriment to the team? Other than your bygone high school experience what connection can be made between his faith and the team's poor performance yesterday?"

David, as I said, I am only speculating and asked for discussion, and I take it you disagree with my speculation. Cool, I get it. How can it be a detriment? It could be the guys that are not there anymore (the superstars that did not make it). Would tOSU's bench be much deeper than it is now? What were their transgressions? You cite Cael as an example of a coach leading by faith. I completely disagree, I have never heard Cael referring to his faith or recruiting using his faith. Cael is a wrestling man first. Going back to the ones not with tOSU anymore. Were their transgressions worse that Ed Ruth's or the Alton's or Andrew Long for that matter? All of these guys got multiple chances from Cael. Again, I am speculating here, but does Ryan's ethics or moral code make him less tolerant of those that might not fit his ideals?

Pandora's box officially open (sorry).



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Discussion Topic: Bucks v Lehigh
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on February 22, 2015

I appreciate you stating that you are speculating Jeff and simply trying to have a civil conversation. You are handling your concern well.

I run a men's ministry and love what Tom says about his faith. That being said, I agree that it should not be a divider in the wrestling room and should not be used as a part of recruitment process in this setting. I think I know Tom just well enough to say that isn't happening, but I agree that we just don't know because we are not in there.

Maybe Tony Jameson could/would comment on this with some insight from in the room?



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Discussion Topic: Bucks v Lehigh
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on February 22, 2015

Jeff Reid--I agree with your comment about religion. No place for it in public life--and that includes a wrestling room.[/quote]

No place for it in a public life - Funny what is the first thing every pro or college athlete says during an interview after a big game? I'm willing to bet 9 out of 10 say "I want to thank God."

Urban Meyer talks about his faith and family beliefs all the time and I don't think it hurts him.

I agree it shouldn't be forced on anyone but I don't think that is happening.

I don't agree with a lot of the stuff posted on here but you couldn't have a civil debate like this on any other site.



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Discussion Topic: Bucks v Lehigh
Tommy Ellis added to this discussion on February 22, 2015

Quote from James Kessen's post:

"Biggest issue since Tom Ryan's arrival in Columbus has been the lack of development of wrestlers in the program who aren't stud recruits. There have been a few exceptions but not enough.

Name a few kids he hasn't developed? The same could be said about Cael and numerous other coaches. Name me one coach who is winning without top notch recruits? and I don't mean duals I mean national titles. Cael didn't win anything without Taylor, Ruth and Wright and they were the same type of recruit as Logan or Bo.

At some point the kids need to take some responsibility you either want it or you don't.

If OSU does ever get rid of Ryan they can just come on here to find there next head coach."


This is what I was trying to convey.I don't have the literary skills as well as some . I guess I should have said they need to somehow find a way to finish on the many leg shots they was in and refuse to give up the advantage when they,have it,wanting it more than the other.I was never at any of these guys level so I hope I wasnt coming across as that guy.I was just dissapointed.If one out of six would have won we would be talking about Missouri today. Accountability needs adressed
I love coach Ryan ,I love the way he lives. We should be grateful for him to be leading our young men.I have faith that we will be ready come march. Go Bucks I will be rooting my ass off for you in St.Johns .Go Bucks!



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Discussion Topic: Bucks v Lehigh
Ryan Mitchell added to this discussion on February 22, 2015

Religious beliefs don't concern me in regards to this event. Here is my issue; the National Duals are a very divisive topic with many opposed to the concept. Tom Ryan is a STAUNCH supporter of using the National Duals to measure who has the best team in the country and grow the sport. For a coach to be something of the face of the movement, to allow his team to fall so flat is troubling.

Clearly, he cannot wrestle for them, but the Bucks as a team were not prepared to win when they went on the mat yesterday and a good part of the responsibility of team preparation falls on the coaching staff. For such an important event, to not be properly prepared is cause for concern from the fan base.

If one match goes the other way, this thread looks much different, but the fact is that they had six chances for one to go the other way and missed on every one without an offensive point.

Plenty of talent exists on the roster and on the coaching staff. If they can prepare themselves fully over the next few weeks, a lot of this bad taste will be washed away, but elite teams don't usually have a clunker like this.



Last edited by Ryan Mitchell on February 22, 2015; edited 1 time in total

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Discussion Topic: Bucks v Lehigh
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on February 22, 2015

This thread is out of control!!!! But I love it. I love this community. We're honest. And that's great. We differ, but we accept it, knowing full well that this is an exchange arena for ideas. Put them out there, and let the chips fall where they may.

The Buckeyes @ the National Duals: who likes to lose!?!?!?! I would assume that everyone in a scarlet in grey singlet - or coaches someone in said singlet - is upset. The best thing I read concerning Iowa City was someone stating what they believed should happen, and that was Logan taking the team into the locker room and sitting every down and having a talk with them - with NaTo, BoJo, and Snyderman standing behind him.

All in all, I think as much as we type out frustrations, of which, I have a few (#wt3 to start), this I recall to my mind...

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."

#GoBuckeyes



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Discussion Topic: Bucks v Lehigh
Drew Taylor added to this discussion on February 22, 2015

Some of you need to relax.

Yesterday's loss, as frustrating as it was, doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of a college wrestling season. It was a poor effort against a determined, well-coached opponent. These things happen. I wouldn't be surprised to learn the Buckeyes trained intensely this past week to prepare for the Big 10 tournament, thus wrestling Saturday with tired legs. If Tom Ryan is a master at anything, it's getting his guys to peak in March. In his tenure at OSU, Ryan's teams have consistently exceeded expectations at nationals.

A month from now, we'll be celebrating a four-time NCAA champ — the sport's fourth ever — and potentially three freshman All-Americans. And if Hunter returns to decent form, this is a top 3-5 team.

I appreciate Martin's old man contributing to this forum, but I don't believe for a second that weight cutting is affecting OSU anymore than the average team. At 133, DiJulius' dad has told us point blank that cutting weight is not an issue for his son. If anything, Martin and Courts look undersized at their respective weights, not too big. Obviously, Tavanello has no problems making 285.

Demas is big for 157, I'll grant you, but Bo Jordan is big for 165. That doesn't seem to be an issue.



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Discussion Topic: Bucks v Lehigh
Jason L. Jackson added to this discussion on February 22, 2015

Quote from Chris Thomas's post:

"I think Tom Ryan has did a great job at Ohio State! His track record shows we peak in March. Under coach Ryan J Jaggers, Mike Pucillo ( who beat Jake Varner Olympic champ to win his title), Nick Heflin, Reese Hump, and many others peaked in March. We have two runner up finishes at nationals under his guide. We could easily be undefeated this year. OSU needs a better option at 285, we had an opportunity to win against VT, Mizzo, and Lehigh if we win at heavy by DEC.

I think JDJ needs to add something to his style to place top 5.

Josh Demas has to pull the trigger.( He needs to built separation between the field and himself).He can compete with the top guy and lose to a top 20.

I think Martin is still searching for a signature win in his career. I always thought he needed a red shirt to develop his skills

Kenny Courts an athlete with all the skills of a national champ, however has never wrestled a complete match at that level.

Tav would be considered an undersized 285 amongst mammoths. He has the heart of a champ but the skills of a round of 12 at best.

If Hunter can't come back to AA form we need 3 of 5 to AA from this group to be champs. Let's hope Hunter is healthy!"



My problem is that if you search, you can probably find a post just like this with Sean Nemec, Colt Sponseller, Cody Magrum, Nikko Triggas and a host of other Buckeyes in there for each of the past 5 years.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein

I think, personally, this should be Coach Ryan's last chance. If we see the same thing again, then we are the insane one for expecting different results.



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Discussion Topic: Bucks v Lehigh
John DiJulius added to this discussion on February 22, 2015

Why don't we hold off a month before hitting the panic button. And yes that is exactly what some are doing. Let the season play out. Losing to Lehigh didn't change one thing about our expectations or potential. They matched up great against us. Their strengths were opposite of our top 4. all the swing matches went their way. That happens some times. This coaching staff has a track record for having their teams peak at the right time, much less talented teams than this one and overachieve at the NCAA's. The team is as healthy as it has been all year with two weeks to prepare for the big tens. And Tom Ryan believes everyone should have faith in something, someone greater than us. There is nothing wrong with that and bringing it to any group of people. He is not pushing a certain religion or God. Lighten up Francis. As a result of that type of leadership and character, not only will these young men have a great opportunity to be NCAA champs, but they are certain to be better husbands, fathers, and businessmen in 10 years. Screw Tom Brands and his classless tactics. This team is right were it is suppose to be. Healthy, hungry and ready to make a run for an NCAA title. March 21, 2015 will be an historic day for the Buckeyes.



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Discussion Topic: Bucks v Lehigh
Roe Fox added to this discussion on February 22, 2015

So Ryan takes nothing at Hofstra and almost single handedly turns it into a strong program but a few years later he loses it?

And if I'm sending my kid to a school for four years I want to know all about the morals of the guy who's going to be in charge of him/her.

The three close loses are wins with a healthy Hunter. In spite of losing him, they have, except for Lehigh, competed hard.

What gets me as I watch Missouri is how incredibly tough -- not dirty - they are against Iowa, excluding the shot Waters gave Gilman, though deserved. Whatever the reason, we have some guys that seem incapable of WT3. Or simply circling to the middle when Iowa shoves them around the way Missouri has been doing.

And I'll take Tom over either of the Brands who win or lose are the biggest a-hole coaches I've ever seen.



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Discussion Topic: Bucks v Lehigh
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on February 22, 2015

Ryan Mitchell!!!!! Great contribution!!! Loved it.



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Discussion Topic: Bucks v Lehigh
Liam Bateman added to this discussion on February 22, 2015

I read an article at the beginning of the year demanding a search begin for The Brands brothers jobs. Some of those behind the movement were the Iowa faithful. Lo and behold the hawks were undefeated big ten champs.
Quick trigger on the criticism.
Point is this, faith and loyalty to a program and a coach should lie only in their principalities and results in the room. Tom excels in both of these areas and we are lucky to have him. He is creating great men and along the way some great wrestlers. Whoever says he cannot develop wrestlers and instill toughness talk to Pucillo, Heflin, Jaggers, Palmer etc. There are too many variables to try and lay the blame on any athlete or coach in this situation.
The Brands don't turn nice guys into hawkeye style wrestlers, the wrestlers choose to adopt that style and are already geared to do so. Because we aren't clubbing the life out of people doesn't mean we are inferior and pushing someone around the mat doesn't mean that you are initiating action, I think there are too many stall calls for locking up a collar tie and pushing. If I remember correctly we were an injury time call away from beating Iowas and a freak pin from beating Missouri.
The state of Buckeye wrestling nation is strong, let's not divide the house now.



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Discussion Topic: Bucks v Lehigh
John DiJulius added to this discussion on February 22, 2015

Quote from Liam Bateman's post:

"I read an article at the beginning of the year demanding a search begin for The Brands brothers jobs. Some of those behind the movement were the Iowa faithful. Lo and behold the hawks were undefeated big ten champs.
Quick trigger on the criticism.
Point is this, faith and loyalty to a program and a coach should lie only in their principalities and results in the room. Tom excels in both of these areas and we are lucky to have him. He is creating great men and along the way some great wrestlers. Whoever says he cannot develop wrestlers and instill toughness talk to Pucillo, Heflin, Jaggers, Palmer etc. There are too many variables to try and lay the blame on any athlete or coach in this situation.
The Brands don't turn nice guys into hawkeye style wrestlers, the wrestlers choose to adopt that style and are already geared to do so. Because we aren't clubbing the life out of people doesn't mean we are inferior and pushing someone around the mat doesn't mean that you are initiating action, I think there are too many stall calls for locking up a collar tie and pushing. If I remember correctly we were an injury time call away from beating Iowas and a freak pin from beating Missouri.
The state of Buckeye wrestling nation is strong, let's not divide the house now."


great post!



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