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Discussion Topic: Religion and Fire
Shel Harper added to this discussion on February 22, 2015
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My comments on two recent post subjects:
1. I think Jeff Reid and Hank Kornblut are right, as I read their posts, that religion (I would add "or lack of same") is a private matter. It seems to me that public display or promotion of religion could, depending on the circumstances, be proselytization.
2. As I watch OSU wrestling on TV, and listen to comments by the announcers calling for a step-up of effort by those who aren't gung-ho, I think of a name for what I think Ryan should be selling: Joey O'Neill fire.
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Discussion Topic: Religion and Fire
David Brown added to this discussion on February 22, 2015
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Shel I respect your sensitivity to the subject of religion. Trying to convert athletes to ones own religion would be innapropriate. This does not mean that one has to keep faith private. Some of us are not that gifted at neatly compartmentalizing our lives. Faith transcends sport, politics, race, culture and even family in some cases. Asking people to keep their faith "private" follows the same tired path of discrimination other groups have faced. It is dismissive.
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Discussion Topic: Religion and Fire
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on February 23, 2015
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Shel,
1) I agree that a gov't shouldn't be dictating a religion to it's people. But individual people being told they can't talk about their belief's in public is a far wrong. To me, that doesn't seem like religious freedom. Everybody has put their faith in something.
2)To paraphrase a Muhammad Ali quote, If Joey O'Neil is good, then I'm all for that.
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Discussion Topic: Religion and Fire
Shel Harper added to this discussion on February 23, 2015
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David and Brady . .Thanks for your thoughtful comments. At the risk of belaboring this point too much on a wrestling forum, I'll say this: I think school prayer is an example of what I'm trying to say. Students are constitutionally free to pray or talk about religion among themselves in school or anywhere else to their heart's content. But official, school-sponsored, or organized religious activity in school or other public place is a no-no. Sometimes the distinction is not a sharp one, which is why courts are often involved.
Speaking of courts. . .go Kenny!
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Discussion Topic: Religion and Fire
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on February 23, 2015
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"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,
or prohibiting the free exercise thereof
; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
What's the difference between "
prohibiting
" and "
abridging
" and why does "religion" get the one and the rest get the other?
ps: You can also type in
BOLD
by substituting a "b" for the "u". However, we cannot
italicize
. Boooooo!!!
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Discussion Topic: Religion and Fire
Steve Lester added to this discussion on February 23, 2015
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Back in my restaurant management days, I encountered a situation where one of my servers was proselytizing customers (who complained to me or other servers). I didn't have a clue from the initial interview process that that was going to happen. She felt it her duty and wouldn't back up an inch. Can I say admirable but misguided? A tough decision had to be made, but CAREFULLY.
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Discussion Topic: Religion and Fire
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on February 23, 2015
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Interesting discussion...but I'm not touching this one.
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Discussion Topic: Religion and Fire
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on February 23, 2015
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"Interesting discussion...but I'm not touching this one."
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Ahhh, come on, Mike! ;-)
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Discussion Topic: Religion and Fire
Jeff Reid added to this discussion on February 23, 2015
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"Interesting discussion...but I'm not touching this one."
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Jump in, the water is warm!
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Discussion Topic: Religion and Fire
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 23, 2015
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(gag in my mouth) still just pissed off Alex Creech.
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Discussion Topic: Religion and Fire
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on February 23, 2015
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I ain't much for talking religion, even the religion of Christianity. BUT if anyone ever wants to talk about Jesus, send me a PM, shoot me an email, or call me. I love to talk about that guy!
In reference to the word, "religion", I would suggest we discuss the religion of wrestling right here on this very site every day of the year. ;-) If you don't think you are religious about wrestling, just record the number of times each day you check this site and other wrestling sites, talk about wrestling with friends, or even just think about wrestling. That sounds downright religious to me :-D
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Discussion Topic: Religion and Fire
Pat Altvater added to this discussion on February 23, 2015
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My wife has told me that there is two topics that I SHOULD NEVER share my opinions with you on this blog. The first was on the matter of the KSU wrestler whose test comments were blown out of proportion and context, and the second topic is religion.
There are many good perspective comments on this site regarding respective 'religious rights'. In my opinion we must all make those decisions for ourselves. Everyone has different backgrounds and heritages, but that doesn't make my belief system and morality compass any better, or worse, than others.
The commom thread of working together in any forum, job, or association is to respect the other people's input regardless of their religion or personal beliefs. I personally believe that anyone has a right to pray or 'personally exercise' their belief systems 'quietly' at any time, regardless of religion. We need to respect others rights, just as we expect them to respect our rights, no more and no less.
I went to a meeting with a Muslim gentleman several years ago where we had an 8 hour round trip to a meeting near Pittsburgh. When we were coming home at sunset, he asked me if I would pull over onto the berm of I-80 near rush-hour, so that he could go out behind my car (on the berm, with semi's and cars racing by at 80 mph) and kneel on his 'religious carpet' and pray at the appropriate time of day. This request was a bit odd to me, but out of respect I honored his request and stopped. While he was outside the car praying to his deity, I was inside the car praying to mine that some 'red-neck trucker' didn't side-swipe us at high speed and kill us.
In the last year, many of you have probably seen the bumper sticker that simply says 'COEXIST'. The unique part of that is that each letter is enhanced to represent on the major religions or belief systems in the world, The 'C' was made as the crescent moon representing Muslims. The 't' was made as the cross of Jesus. The 'O' was the star of David. The meaning of it all, is that we all need to learn to get along. Throw out the differences, and grow together through common needs and trusts.
I have grown to respect and enjoy Hank's comments on this site over the years, and until last summer I had never met him. I know that he has a strong faith that is different than mine, but that is fine, it certainly doesn't affect his passion for wrestling. Now, Hank, I will say this even though I know little about the actual facts, but I understand that a significant portion of the community that you coached in was of your same faith. I would think that it would have been comforting for the boys and families involved to know that their coach had similar belief's, but that is not a pre-requisite for being a good coach. A team and a coach join together to fight for a cause, but I would never expect that coach, or a team member, to be something totally different that what you are.
So, everybody, lighten up! As the song from the 60's said: SO EVERY BODY -SMILE ON YOUR BROTHER-YOU'VE GOTTA LOVE ONE ANOTHER RIGHT NOW!
I think Coach Ryan is a great addition to Ohio State. I hope he is here for the next 20 years. I also hope he wins a national championship here, but that is a different matter. It doesn't make him any less of a coach, or human being, if he doesn't.
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Last edited by Pat Altvater on February 23, 2015; edited 1 time in total
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Discussion Topic: Religion and Fire
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on February 23, 2015
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Quote from Patrick Campbell's post:
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"I ain't much for talking religion, even the religion of Christianity. BUT if anyone ever wants to talk about Jesus, send me a PM, shoot me an email, or call me. I love to talk about that guy!
In reference to the word, "religion", I would suggest we discuss the religion of wrestling right here on this very site every day of the year. ;-) If you don't think you are religious about wrestling, just record the number of times each day you check this site and other wrestling sites, talk about wrestling with friends, or even just think about wrestling. That sounds downright religious to me :-D"
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Ha! I spend the first few hours of my day on sites like this! My counter would be in the hundreds - dare I say THOUSANDS!!!!!!!!!!
One point of note - when I ocnsider "religion", I view it as a person's attempt to appease the Theistic being who holds eternal existence - be it bliss or hell - in its hand(s).
For all of the wrestling talk I do, and as much of a fan as I am of this sport, I do not view wrestling or wrestling discussions in that manner.
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Discussion Topic: Religion and Fire
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on February 23, 2015
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Quote from Mark Niemann's post:
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"
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Quote from Patrick Campbell's post:
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"I ain't much for talking religion, even the religion of Christianity. BUT if anyone ever wants to talk about Jesus, send me a PM, shoot me an email, or call me. I love to talk about that guy!
In reference to the word, "religion", I would suggest we discuss the religion of wrestling right here on this very site every day of the year. ;-) If you don't think you are religious about wrestling, just record the number of times each day you check this site and other wrestling sites, talk about wrestling with friends, or even just think about wrestling. That sounds downright religious to me :-D"
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Ha! I spend the first few hours of my day on sites like this! My counter would be in the hundreds - dare I say THOUSANDS!!!!!!!!!!
One point of note - when I ocnsider "religion", I view it as a person's attempt to appease the Theistic being who holds eternal existence - be it bliss or hell - in its hand(s).
For all of the wrestling talk I do, and as much of a fan as I am of this sport, I do not view wrestling or wrestling discussions in that manner."
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Ah, well, how about "idolitry" then? Me being the worst offender, btw :-D
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Discussion Topic: Religion and Fire
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 23, 2015
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Pat: Most of the Shaker kids I coached were involved in their churches in the Black community. I had immense respect for those institutions because I saw how important a role they played in assisting struggling families. These kids usually had better conduct and higher self esteem. That, to me, is the value of religion. It doesn't, however, prove the existence of a higher power.
My faith is not strong. I just acknowledge that there's more to all of this than we can see and understand. That's where it starts and ends for me.
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