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Discussion Topic: Myles Martin Prep Finals Match
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 1, 2015
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Discussion Topic: Myles Martin Prep Finals Match
Liam Bateman added to this discussion on March 1, 2015
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I Love the way Martin wrestles. Even when Bo handed it to him in the semis at the ironman he kept coming. You have to love that in a competitor. More concerned about Ke shawns offensive output. Too soon?
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Discussion Topic: Myles Martin Prep Finals Match
Dwight LeRoy added to this discussion on March 2, 2015
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Quote from Liam Bateman's post:
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"I Love the way Martin wrestles. Even when Bo handed it to him in the semis at the ironman he kept coming. You have to love that in a competitor. More concerned about Ke shawns offensive output. Too soon?"
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Liam,
I've been following this forum for years but never posted because we've never had a surrounding area wrestler commit to tOSU. Liam, you clearly haven't followed Ke-Shawn's career and why would you.
Let's compare apples to apples. Myles Martin defeated #12 Singletary 10-4 (Feb 2015). Ke-Shawn wrestled up a weight class (145#) and defeated #12 Ethan Karsten 11-0 (Jan 2015). Both wrestlers competed well and scored points against their opponents.
The elephant in the room is Ke-Shawn's match against Matthew Kolodzik. Clearly, that one match doesn't define his offensive career because I'm sure we could go and pick out certain matches were wrestlers just didn't bring their "A" game. When competing against top 5 ranked wrestlers, creating "offensive output" is a hard task to perform, I don't care who the wrestler may be.
There is a reason why tOSU recruited both Myles and Ke-Shawn and I'm pretty sure one of the reason is they can score points as well as academically solid student athletes.
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Discussion Topic: Myles Martin Prep Finals Match
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on March 3, 2015
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After watching that match, I am convinced - Myles Martin would beat me.
Unfortunately, that is not saying much.
MyMar has a lot going for him. As mentioned, he's a goer. Energizer bunny style. He has solid offense, excellent defense. No special teams play, but we'll give him a pass on that. He does have some edge to him (push out of bounds).
Great stuff. I'm glad he's a Buckeye!
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Last edited by Mark Niemann on March 3, 2015; edited 1 time in total
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Discussion Topic: Myles Martin Prep Finals Match
Gregory Martin added to this discussion on March 3, 2015
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Been watching KH for years He is game and has plenty of offense He was not even 90% wrestling MK and he could of took the easy way out and he still came which tells me one thing #HEART
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Discussion Topic: Myles Martin Prep Finals Match
Jack Muni added to this discussion on March 3, 2015
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I looked at Ke-Shawn's 2014-15 match results and there are plenty of near falls and falls. If Logan stays around training for the Olympics, Ke-Shawn will have the best training partner anyone could ask for. Steel sharpens steel!
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Discussion Topic: Myles Martin Prep Finals Match
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 3, 2015
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Pretty sure Hayes had beaten Kolodzik in a previous match.
Hayes and Martin both have well developed skill sets which is key for D1 success.
Martin says he's been coached by Mike McMullan's brother. His style of finish on his shots is similar (also same way the Stiebers finish).
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Discussion Topic: Myles Martin Prep Finals Match
Liam Bateman added to this discussion on March 3, 2015
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Quote from Dwight LeRoy's post:
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Quote from Liam Bateman's post:
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"I Love the way Martin wrestles. Even when Bo handed it to him in the semis at the ironman he kept coming. You have to love that in a competitor. More concerned about Ke shawns offensive output. Too soon?"
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Liam,
I've been following this forum for years but never posted because we've never had a surrounding area wrestler commit to tOSU. Liam, you clearly haven't followed Ke-Shawn's career and why would you.
Let's compare apples to apples. Myles Martin defeated #12 Singletary 10-4 (Feb 2015). Ke-Shawn wrestled up a weight class (145#) and defeated #12 Ethan Karsten 11-0 (Jan 2015).
The elephant in the room is Ke-Shawn's match against Matthew Kolodzik. Clearly, that one match doesn't define his offensive career because I'm sure we could go and pick out certain matches were wrestlers just didn't bring their "A" game. When competing against top 5 ranked wrestlers, creating "offensive output" is a hard task to perform, I don't care who the wrestler may be.
There is a reason why tOSU recruited both Myles and Ke-Shawn and I'm pretty sure one of the reason is they can score points as well as academically solid student athletes."
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The Kolodzik match was no elephant, Kolodzik was better in all phases, whether he was 100% i can't say. I have actually followed him as much as you can follow a wrestler out of missouri. I was lucky enough to watch him at both iron mans and all of his fargo runs. He has some great wins and the loses he does have he wrestled tough. He holds position better than a lot of wrestlers but is rarely pushing pace the way Myles does. His top game is primarily tilts, which, unless your name is David Taylor or A.J. Schopp, don't work. Ninety-nine percent of guys who made their living off of tilts found out very quickly that they are ineffective and often lead to reversals, i.e. Courts, Peppleman etc. I am in no way saying he has no offense but I'm more concerned about him than I am about Myles. How you score versus your equal opponents is what i gauge the elite wrestlers on, go to flo and click on each wrestlers profiles and check out their marquee wins and losses and take a look at the point differential. I am excited to have Ke Shawn and I am sure the staff will have him ready to go, he has a lot of class and even more heart. GO Bucks.
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Discussion Topic: Myles Martin Prep Finals Match
Dwight LeRoy added to this discussion on March 3, 2015
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Quote from Liam Bateman's post:
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Quote from Dwight LeRoy's post:
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Quote from Liam Bateman's post:
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"I Love the way Martin wrestles. Even when Bo handed it to him in the semis at the ironman he kept coming. You have to love that in a competitor. More concerned about Ke shawns offensive output. Too soon?"
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Liam,
I've been following this forum for years but never posted because we've never had a surrounding area wrestler commit to tOSU. Liam, you clearly haven't followed Ke-Shawn's career and why would you.
Let's compare apples to apples. Myles Martin defeated #12 Singletary 10-4 (Feb 2015). Ke-Shawn wrestled up a weight class (145#) and defeated #12 Ethan Karsten 11-0 (Jan 2015).
The elephant in the room is Ke-Shawn's match against Matthew Kolodzik. Clearly, that one match doesn't define his offensive career because I'm sure we could go and pick out certain matches were wrestlers just didn't bring their "A" game. When competing against top 5 ranked wrestlers, creating "offensive output" is a hard task to perform, I don't care who the wrestler may be.
There is a reason why tOSU recruited both Myles and Ke-Shawn and I'm pretty sure one of the reason is they can score points as well as academically solid student athletes."
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The Kolodzik match was no elephant, Kolodzik was better in all phases, whether he was 100% i can't say. I have actually followed him as much as you can follow a wrestler out of missouri. I was lucky enough to watch him at both iron mans and all of his fargo runs. He has some great wins and the loses he does have he wrestled tough. He holds position better than a lot of wrestlers but is rarely pushing pace the way Myles does. His top game is primarily tilts, which, unless your name is David Taylor or A.J. Schopp, don't work. Ninety-nine percent of guys who made their living off of tilts found out very quickly that they are ineffective and often lead to reversals, i.e. Courts, Peppleman etc. I am in no way saying he has no offense but I'm more concerned about him than I am about Myles. How you score versus your equal opponents is what i gauge the elite wrestlers on, go to flo and click on each wrestlers profiles and check out their marquee wins and losses and take a look at the point differential. I am excited to have Ke Shawn and I am sure the staff will have him ready to go, he has a lot of class and even more heart. GO Bucks."
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Liam, don't tell Logan that doing tilts and not pushing the pace doesn't work in college because he's been doing it all wrong up to this point, lol. Why don't you tell me what type of turns work at the 141/149# weight class. Myles wrestles like a light weight and how many college wrestlers at 184# do you see doing what Myles does today, no one that I can think of but I guess he won't be successful either.
I took your advice and looked up Ke-Shawn's resume just in case I missed something. You mentioned how you score against your equal is how you determine a wrestlers potential. He was an Ironman runner up and champ (wrestled his equal). At Fargo, he took 3rd, 3rd & runner up (again, wrestled his equal). Wrestled Zahid and actually scored an offensive point (another equal).
Ke-Shawn had all the top schools recruiting him and that includes all the Big 10 schools and obviously they think he can score points and the pace at which he wrestles is not an issue. You seem to be more of an IA type mentality which is fine but imo, that style doesn't work for everyone.
I'd be curious what your analysis is regarding the other recruits in Rodriguez & Moore.
I don't think rather a wrestler pushes the pace or not determines rather he's successful or not. I don't think the type of offensive points a wrestler scores in HS matters either. What matters is rather or not the student athlete is willing to learn what it takes to be successful at the college level.
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Discussion Topic: Myles Martin Prep Finals Match
Liam Bateman added to this discussion on March 4, 2015
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Quote from Dwight LeRoy's post:
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Quote from Liam Bateman's post:
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Quote from Dwight LeRoy's post:
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Quote from Liam Bateman's post:
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"I Love the way Martin wrestles. Even when Bo handed it to him in the semis at the ironman he kept coming. You have to love that in a competitor. More concerned about Ke shawns offensive output. Too soon?"
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Liam,
I've been following this forum for years but never posted because we've never had a surrounding area wrestler commit to tOSU. Liam, you clearly haven't followed Ke-Shawn's career and why would you.
Let's compare apples to apples. Myles Martin defeated #12 Singletary 10-4 (Feb 2015). Ke-Shawn wrestled up a weight class (145#) and defeated #12 Ethan Karsten 11-0 (Jan 2015).
The elephant in the room is Ke-Shawn's match against Matthew Kolodzik. Clearly, that one match doesn't define his offensive career because I'm sure we could go and pick out certain matches were wrestlers just didn't bring their "A" game. When competing against top 5 ranked wrestlers, creating "offensive output" is a hard task to perform, I don't care who the wrestler may be.
There is a reason why tOSU recruited both Myles and Ke-Shawn and I'm pretty sure one of the reason is they can score points as well as academically solid student athletes."
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The Kolodzik match was no elephant, Kolodzik was better in all phases, whether he was 100% i can't say. I have actually followed him as much as you can follow a wrestler out of missouri. I was lucky enough to watch him at both iron mans and all of his fargo runs. He has some great wins and the loses he does have he wrestled tough. He holds position better than a lot of wrestlers but is rarely pushing pace the way Myles does. His top game is primarily tilts, which, unless your name is David Taylor or A.J. Schopp, don't work. Ninety-nine percent of guys who made their living off of tilts found out very quickly that they are ineffective and often lead to reversals, i.e. Courts, Peppleman etc. I am in no way saying he has no offense but I'm more concerned about him than I am about Myles. How you score versus your equal opponents is what i gauge the elite wrestlers on, go to flo and click on each wrestlers profiles and check out their marquee wins and losses and take a look at the point differential. I am excited to have Ke Shawn and I am sure the staff will have him ready to go, he has a lot of class and even more heart. GO Bucks."
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Liam, don't tell Logan that doing tilts and not pushing the pace doesn't work in college because he's been doing it all wrong up to this point, lol. Why don't you tell me what type of turns work at the 141/149# weight class. Myles wrestles like a light weight and how many college wrestlers at 184# do you see doing what Myles does today, no one that I can think of but I guess he won't be successful either.
I took your advice and looked up Ke-Shawn's resume just in case I missed something. You mentioned how you score against your equal is how you determine a wrestlers potential. He was an Ironman runner up and champ (wrestled his equal). At Fargo, he took 3rd, 3rd & runner up (again, wrestled his equal). Wrestled Zahid and actually scored an offensive point (another equal).
Ke-Shawn had all the top schools recruiting him and that includes all the Big 10 schools and obviously they think he can score points and the pace at which he wrestles is not an issue. You seem to be more of an IA type mentality which is fine but imo, that style doesn't work for everyone.
I'd be curious what your analysis is regarding the other recruits in Rodriguez & Moore.
I don't think rather a wrestler pushes the pace or not determines rather he's successful or not. I don't think the type of offensive points a wrestler scores in HS matters either. What matters is rather or not the student athlete is willing to learn what it takes to be successful at the college level."
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So now Logan Stieber who shoots more than the cops here in cleveland doesn't push pace? And what Logan does with his claw-wrist, half-wrist has never been seen before and doesn't have a name...it certainly isn't a standard tilt. Ke Shawn is a WINNER, that's why Tom brought him here. My comment was to look at the POINTS being scored, go back and read it again. But you know what, a guy named Dake didn't score much, a guy named Russell didn't score much, neither did a guy named Heflin, but they were winners. Never in my comment, which I was tongue in cheek, did I say I was concerned with Ke Shawn winning. I'm talking offensive prowess, score, score, score,score. That IS Logan Stieber. He defines pushing pace. Tomesello, Jordan and Snyder are cut from the same cloth. I believe Myles will follow that trend. My question was...will Hayes? He will win, sir. That is not in question, but how.
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Discussion Topic: Myles Martin Prep Finals Match
Dwight LeRoy added to this discussion on March 4, 2015
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Quote from Liam Bateman's post:
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"So now Logan Stieber who shoots more than the cops here in cleveland doesn't push pace? And what Logan does with his claw-wrist, half-wrist has never been seen before and doesn't have a name...it certainly isn't a standard tilt. Ke Shawn is a WINNER, that's why Tom brought him here. My comment was to look at the POINTS being scored, go back and read it again. But you know what, a guy named Dake didn't score much, a guy named Russell didn't score much, neither did a guy named Heflin, but they were winners. Never in my comment, which I was tongue in cheek, did I say I was concerned with Ke Shawn winning. I'm talking offensive prowess, score, score, score,score. That IS Logan Stieber. He defines pushing pace. Tomesello, Jordan and Snyder are cut from the same cloth. I believe Myles will follow that trend. My question was...will Hayes? He will win, sir. That is not in question, but how."
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My opinion is that I don't think that Stieber is as aggressive consistently as Tomesello, Jordan or Snyder in the neutral position and there is nothing wrong with that. I think that Stieber is relentless when it comes to mat wrestling, straight up scoring machine. Stieber claw-wrist is a form a tilt because that move isn't designed to actually pin his opponents but to generate points. I don't think that adding that move to Ke-Shawn's arsenal of tilts would be a problem. Your comment about tilts in relation to Courts, Peppleman & etc, I disagree with simply because maybe those wrestlers hasn't had the success in general at the collegiate level as they had hoped, we see that ALL the time.
You keep talking about going back and look at previous match scores. I guess I don't see a difference between winning 8-6 vs 3-0. Seems to me giving up 6 points is worse than giving up zero. Even if 4 of the 6 points are because the wrestler cut his opponent, not sure if that's a good thing either. Some wrestlers are takedown artist while others prefer to score on the mat. Alot of the matches I've witnessed of Martin & Hayes, Martin likes to do the takedown and release and Hayes is more of a mat wrestler. Some opponents wont wrestle the better wrestler and their single goal is to keep the match close. In those scenarios, Martin will release his guy and Hayes will work his tilts. There could be all sorts of reasons why the score is what it is. So simply looking at the score means nothing, you have to actually watch the match.
Interesting debate Liam and I've enjoyed the conversation. At the end of the day, both wrestlers have different styles and to get focused of HS results will mean absolutely nothing when they step in a college environment. We've all seen some of the best wrestlers transition successfully but even more not compete at the level of expectation at the college level.
How will he score, by listening to the coaches as they improve on what got him recruited to tOSU in the first place.
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Discussion Topic: Myles Martin Prep Finals Match
Roe Fox added to this discussion on March 4, 2015
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"My opinion is that I don't think that Stieber is as aggressive consistently as Tomesello, Jordan or Snyder in the neutral position"
Absolutely disagree with this. There are many ways I suppose to define aggressive but Logan never backs up, usually is pushing forward and usually is the one taking the first -- and most -- shots. It may not be repeated half shots from left field that sometimes make one look "active" but he is the last guy on the team I would call less than aggressive in neutral.
When you usually get the first takedown then ride someone for 2:33 there isn't much more to do on your feet.
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Discussion Topic: Myles Martin Prep Finals Match
Dwight LeRoy added to this discussion on March 4, 2015
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Quote from Roe Fox's post:
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""My opinion is that I don't think that Stieber is as aggressive consistently as Tomesello, Jordan or Snyder in the neutral position"
Absolutely disagree with this. There are many ways I suppose to define aggressive but Logan never backs up, usually is pushing forward and usually is the one taking the first -- and most -- shots. It may not be repeated half shots from left field that sometimes make one look "active" but he is the last guy on the team I would call less than aggressive in neutral.
When you usually get the first takedown then ride someone for 2:33 there isn't much more to do on your feet."
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Roe, I completely agree with you that defining aggressiveness can be tricky. There is no doubt that Logan takes the first shot. I'm defining aggressiveness as a in your face, moving ones opponent out of position and heavy hands type wrestler. To me, Logan is a moving forward but more of a finesse type wrestler, jmo. At the end of the day, he's the best P4P wrestler in college regardless how we define his aggressiveness.
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Discussion Topic: Myles Martin Prep Finals Match
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on March 4, 2015
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Quote from Liam Bateman's post:
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Quote from Dwight LeRoy's post:
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Quote from Liam Bateman's post:
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Quote from Dwight LeRoy's post:
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Quote from Liam Bateman's post:
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"I Love the way Martin wrestles. Even when Bo handed it to him in the semis at the ironman he kept coming. You have to love that in a competitor. More concerned about Ke shawns offensive output. Too soon?"
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Liam,
I've been following this forum for years but never posted because we've never had a surrounding area wrestler commit to tOSU. Liam, you clearly haven't followed Ke-Shawn's career and why would you.
Let's compare apples to apples. Myles Martin defeated #12 Singletary 10-4 (Feb 2015). Ke-Shawn wrestled up a weight class (145#) and defeated #12 Ethan Karsten 11-0 (Jan 2015).
The elephant in the room is Ke-Shawn's match against Matthew Kolodzik. Clearly, that one match doesn't define his offensive career because I'm sure we could go and pick out certain matches were wrestlers just didn't bring their "A" game. When competing against top 5 ranked wrestlers, creating "offensive output" is a hard task to perform, I don't care who the wrestler may be.
There is a reason why tOSU recruited both Myles and Ke-Shawn and I'm pretty sure one of the reason is they can score points as well as academically solid student athletes."
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The Kolodzik match was no elephant, Kolodzik was better in all phases, whether he was 100% i can't say. I have actually followed him as much as you can follow a wrestler out of missouri. I was lucky enough to watch him at both iron mans and all of his fargo runs. He has some great wins and the loses he does have he wrestled tough. He holds position better than a lot of wrestlers but is rarely pushing pace the way Myles does. His top game is primarily tilts, which, unless your name is David Taylor or A.J. Schopp, don't work. Ninety-nine percent of guys who made their living off of tilts found out very quickly that they are ineffective and often lead to reversals, i.e. Courts, Peppleman etc. I am in no way saying he has no offense but I'm more concerned about him than I am about Myles. How you score versus your equal opponents is what i gauge the elite wrestlers on, go to flo and click on each wrestlers profiles and check out their marquee wins and losses and take a look at the point differential. I am excited to have Ke Shawn and I am sure the staff will have him ready to go, he has a lot of class and even more heart. GO Bucks."
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Liam, don't tell Logan that doing tilts and not pushing the pace doesn't work in college because he's been doing it all wrong up to this point, lol. Why don't you tell me what type of turns work at the 141/149# weight class. Myles wrestles like a light weight and how many college wrestlers at 184# do you see doing what Myles does today, no one that I can think of but I guess he won't be successful either.
I took your advice and looked up Ke-Shawn's resume just in case I missed something. You mentioned how you score against your equal is how you determine a wrestlers potential. He was an Ironman runner up and champ (wrestled his equal). At Fargo, he took 3rd, 3rd & runner up (again, wrestled his equal). Wrestled Zahid and actually scored an offensive point (another equal).
Ke-Shawn had all the top schools recruiting him and that includes all the Big 10 schools and obviously they think he can score points and the pace at which he wrestles is not an issue. You seem to be more of an IA type mentality which is fine but imo, that style doesn't work for everyone.
I'd be curious what your analysis is regarding the other recruits in Rodriguez & Moore.
I don't think rather a wrestler pushes the pace or not determines rather he's successful or not. I don't think the type of offensive points a wrestler scores in HS matters either. What matters is rather or not the student athlete is willing to learn what it takes to be successful at the college level."
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So now Logan Stieber who shoots more than the cops here in cleveland doesn't push pace? And what Logan does with his claw-wrist, half-wrist has never been seen before and doesn't have a name...it certainly isn't a standard tilt. Ke Shawn is a WINNER, that's why Tom brought him here. My comment was to look at the POINTS being scored, go back and read it again. But you know what, a guy named Dake didn't score much, a guy named Russell didn't score much, neither did a guy named Heflin, but they were winners. Never in my comment, which I was tongue in cheek, did I say I was concerned with Ke Shawn winning. I'm talking offensive prowess, score, score, score,score. That IS Logan Stieber. He defines pushing pace. Tomesello, Jordan and Snyder are cut from the same cloth. I believe Myles will follow that trend. My question was...will Hayes? He will win, sir. That is not in question, but how."
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I disagree about tilts and I think more college wrestlers score with tilts more then any other move. Kenny scores with them all the time and yeah he gets reversed once in a while but so does almost every other wrestler. You almost make it sound like the stuff kids use in HS to win doesn't work in College. Kids not in college yet and we are already talking about what won't work and what will.
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Discussion Topic: Myles Martin Prep Finals Match
Gregory Martin added to this discussion on March 4, 2015
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Yall are brutal but it's laughable so all good!! KH has always figured it out and he is a very bright kid so my bet is he figures college out!! Kid aint even step foot on campus yet but once he does and start grinding daily with the BIG boys he will be fine!!!!!!! Not all kids wrestle the same way in college as they did in HS and not all kids in HS wrestle as they did in Junior High!! Every level of wrestling requires adjustments and he is dedicated and a hard worker so not even a question whether or not he will be fine
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