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Discussion Topic: Can of worms: Part Deux
David Brown added to this discussion on April 6, 2015

Reading Tom Ryan's selection as Coach of the year, 2 things stood out to me. The InterMat writers were compelled by his "belief" and his ability to "maximize adversity."
These traits are no doubt fruits of Ryan's faith journey. In my particular faith, adversity plays a key role both thematically and symbolically in who I am becoming.
It was thought by some even very recently on this forum that Ryan's public faith could actually be a deficit to team performance.
I am wondering what else can be said about this with the benefit of hindsight and that ugly Lehigh loss in the rearview.



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Discussion Topic: Can of worms: Part Deux
Justin Hayes added to this discussion on April 6, 2015

Brother Brown,

"Reading Tom Ryan's selection as Coach of the year, 2 things stood out to me. The InterMat writers were compelled by his 'belief' and his ability to 'maximize adversity.'
These traits are no doubt fruits of Ryan's faith journey. In my particular faith, adversity plays a key role both thematically and symbolically in who I am becoming."

Me, too (!)

"It was thought by some even very recently on this forum that Ryan's public faith could actually be a deficit to team performance.
I am wondering what else can be said about this with the benefit of hindsight and that ugly Lehigh loss in the rearview."

And, meekly, a lot...because correlating a faith that is, well, faithful (at least for those who are justified by grace through faith in Jesus Christ and believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible) with temporal success ("winning and losing") can't be doctrinally (or experientially) justified in the way that is inferred -if I am understanding you correctly- in your proposal.

(Is this what you mean or have I missed the mark?)

God calls us to view everything through a filter (His) that is foreign to the filter that is generally accepted in time/space on this planet -right now- by the majority of its inhabitants.

We strive to operate under a different economy for the time being, in anticipation of a future, better economy. (This is the difference between intellectually thinking something to be true...and believing it to be true.)

I like you're sentiment, though. Parceling through these type of situations can be inherently profitable.



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Discussion Topic: Can of worms: Part Deux
David Brown added to this discussion on April 6, 2015

Justin you may have inferred more than I implied but I like your zeal. Faith is just such a strange enterprise and rarely judged on its own merit. When the Bucks were struggling I think some looked for a scapegoat. Tom's faith was chosen as the possible culprit. When the Bucks do well his faith is given credit it seems. As long as something can be shown to have practical or empirical value then we anoint it or tolerate it.
This seems to cheapen faith which is too spacious to be measured by variables and controls.
We live in the West though and cynicism is the pathology of the western world.
Mostly I just thought there may be some who saw Tom's faith differently now... I guess I'm looking for converts.



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Discussion Topic: Can of worms: Part Deux
Roe Fox added to this discussion on April 7, 2015

Tom recently posted a Twitter photo of he and Lee Strobel, a writer who started as an agnostic -- or was it atheist -- investigative reporter in Chicago. He wrote two wonderful and well researched books " The Case for Faith" and " The Case for Christ." They led him to his Christianity through his investigative work basically challenging Christian beliefs through unbelieving eyes and coming out a believer. Great books for those seeking concrete proof of the higher God and the actual existence of Christ.

I know Dave is talking about other people's views of TR's faith now that it has carried him through the challenges of this year but I doubt Tom has wavered.



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Discussion Topic: Can of worms: Part Deux
Justin Hayes added to this discussion on April 7, 2015

Quote from David Brown's post:

"Justin you may have inferred more than I implied but I like your zeal. Faith is just such a strange enterprise and rarely judged on its own merit. When the Bucks were struggling I think some looked for a scapegoat. Tom's faith was chosen as the possible culprit. When the Bucks do well his faith is given credit it seems. As long as something can be shown to have practical or empirical value then we anoint it or tolerate it.
This seems to cheapen faith which is too spacious to be measured by variables and controls.
We live in the West though and cynicism is the pathology of the western world.
Mostly I just thought there may be some who saw Tom's faith differently now... I guess I'm looking for converts."



Good stuff, thank you.

A couple of thoughts:

I would contend faith is not a "thing", but a response.

The veracity of the object of one's faith validates (or negates) the veracity of one's faith. (Thus, it isn't actually "MY faith..." as though I'm the object of it and it isn't necessarily true faith no matter how wholly/sincerely I believe it to be true.)

What are your thoughts on making the same "faith correlations" for Cael Sanderson, who I believe is a Mormon?

Would you apply the same thread of thinking if the exact same scenario played out at PSU instead of tOSU and involved Cael instead of Tom?

(I'm not being adversarial, just interested in understanding how you are parceling this out.)



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Discussion Topic: Can of worms: Part Deux
David Brown added to this discussion on April 8, 2015

Cael is an interesting example. At issue was how Coach Ryan apparently lives his faith more publically than some are comfortable with. Not sure if Cael has ever been criticized for that or not. What I find troubling is that there are those who believe faith should not be fleshed out in the public sector. The 1st amendment does not safeguard one from ever having to hear about someones faith or even being exposed to religious sentiment. It was written to protect the free expression of faith. The idea that Tom, Cael or anyone else would have to compartmentalize their faith is repelling to me. I work in a federal building and it has a chapel, meditation rooms and people from all over the world who speak openly of their faith. What we cannot do is proselytize Or coerce others into our own faith.



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Discussion Topic: Can of worms: Part Deux
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on April 8, 2015

If Tom Ryan wasn't living out his faith in Christ in front of his team, it wouldn't be real. Kids trust those who are trustworthy and can smell a fake a mile away (many examples of this also). In that sense, Tom's consistent faith and his tangible living it out in front of his team in times of triumph and times of struggles allows them to have a comfort in the midst of the season even if they don't believe what he does.

Cael is very open to kids of any religion and doesn't press his beliefs onto his kids -- but they know what he believes.



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