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Discussion Topic: Off Topic
Brandon Gambucci added to this discussion on May 12, 2015
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Wow there is quite a lot going on in this thread!
Firstly, my thoughts on this subject are most simply summed up with this quote by Phillip Agnew, "Consider that we’re shipwrecked on an island. We’ve written S.O.S. on the sand, we’ve put a message in a bottle, and we’ve screamed at the top of the lungs. But planes and boats never came to our aid. Then we decide to set our boat on fire, and people finally take notice."
IMO empathy is one of the most important aspects in terms of grasping these types of situations. Anyone who does anything does so for a reason. And that reason is what we should try to more clearly understand.
Additionally, I don't appreciate any shots thrown at the "newest" generation. In all of history older generations condemn the newer generations and talk about how values are going by the wayside...etc. Everyday I'm surrounded by intelligent and extraordinarily motivated individuals working to make the world a better place; I'd like to consider myself one of them. I don't think we get anywhere by demonizing different generations of people. We should be working together.
Also, I'm not entirely sure where this claim that America/the world is declining and seemingly on the verge of ruin comes from. Historically speaking, we are at the most peaceful time in human existence, civil rights are coming to fruition for so many people (albeit a bit slower than we might want), unemployment is extremely low, social issues once deemed too inappropriate to talk about are being discussed each and every day, and we are in the middle of a technological Renaissance. Obviously we, as people, have a lot to work on, but I think we are doing a pretty dang good job.
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Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on May 13, 2015
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Lou Demas added to this discussion on May 14, 2015
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Mr. Lester
I wonder where the Black Power movement went and why are they are not asking about the demographics of where they put abortion clinics in relationship to minority communities and why Black women are 3 to 5 times more likley to have abortions than white women? When abortion dortor Kermit Gosnel severed the spines black babies after they were born alive where were the riots in the streets. At least if you fighting in Vietnam they gave you the means to defend yourself, unlike a baby getting ambushed by a scalpel coming out of his mother's womb. I directed this question to you because you were alive during that era and you mentioned black power movement in your post? I did like your post and believe racism is a learned behavior.
Brandon,
There are a lot of young people like yourself doing great things howerver thing are far different now morally than in my youth. In my youth divorce was rare still where I lived in up state New York but then as I got older it became normal. In my youth you got a girl pregnant, you married her. Go on Ted Talks they have some really good talks on why porn is bad and how it rewires your brain , what I found interesting is that they say that the porn of today is so much more hard than that of my day that if you addicted to porn at your age and I got addicted to porn as old as I am, my would rewire faster and recover faster simple because to the I would have seen in my youth was so much tamer. Theses aren't pot shots they are the truth. Personally I think a lot of your generation in just a hash tag generation. They hash tag what ever the new flavor of the day is, they feel good about it and there social responsibility in done.
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Discussion Topic: Off Topic
Brandon Gambucci added to this discussion on May 14, 2015
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@Lou
Appreciate the sentiment as I'm certainly going to try my best! .....
But, as far as divorce rates go, it wasn't even legal to get divorced unless a criminal act had occurred with one of the individuals until the 1970's. The biggest factor in divorce rates has to be an increase of women in the American workforce. No longer did women have to rely on their spouses, so divorce became more common. When in unhappy marriages, women were forced to stay because, well, they had no other option. These options exist today. Additionally, divorce has been steadily decreasing since the 1980's. So I'm not sure that "divorce" has anything to do with a declining morality among my generation.
As far as porn goes, uhm, well... I don't know enough about the subject to say anything. But a quick google search showed me this : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/relationships/11477028/Why-porn-might-actually-be-good-for-you.html
Also, I have to imagine that any increase in pornography has to do with the access to the internet. I don't think your generation would act any different than mine if you had the same type of access to the internet (and porn) than we do today. Additionally, not sure how that has to do with morals..or anything really.
Lastly! I have no idea what being a #hashtag generation means, or how it references social responsibility. If you're referencing social media, outside of a few negative things (see technological addiction), social media has been responsible for a lot of good in the past few years. I personally love the ability to stay connected to my family and my peers when I otherwise would not have. I'll admit that I'm possibly..err probably addicted to #hashtagging too many pictures, tweets, and snapchats, but....I don't see how that makes me less moral or affects my social responsibility.
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Steve Lester added to this discussion on May 15, 2015
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Lou,
I had to google the name of the abortion doctor, and find that his activities came later (1979, 80s and 90s). At any rate, abortion was very much in the news when I was in college early 70s. Yet, I had trouble keeping track of the two sides of the issue, pro- and anti-abortion. Both sides seemed so strident and militant. I would see or hear a news report and then moments later, be asking myself "were those pro and anti-abortionists that were in that report?". I remember at the time criticizing MYSELF for not being able to tell them apart, thinking you've got to pay attention. It was fruitless. Was I alone?
Bob,
The Hough riots occured in 66. I wrestled at East High in 67. It was an interesting bus ride over from West High, a bunch of white faces in yellow school bus, once or twice getting a middle finger pointed our way. But, predictably, that was the extent of any trouble by that time.
Later, at college on campus, some black student leaders would dress in suits and ties, every day, as they tried to harness strength and provide direction to the notions of black power and black pride. Students for non-violence. Others, black segregationists, advocated spitting off several southern states and making them a separate black-ruled country. Then, others, expounded on going back to their African roots, in custom and dress. Finally there were those who preached violence. While one could understand it, distractedly, the real-life prospects were dreaded.
Government institutions were anti-black at all levels. Especially law enforcement. For example, Martin Luther King was, to use a phrase above, a "chronic experience that was incorrectly interpreted" by the FBI. Thus he was officially pegged as, and believed by some to be, a danger to national security.
Gotta run, but I want to mention later about hearing the "I have a dream speech" live on radio.
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Steve Lester added to this discussion on May 15, 2015
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Brandon,
Old timers, back in the mid sixties, assured us youngsters that our love for the new rock and roll music (Beatles, et al), was a passing fad and that it would be gone in 10 years.
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Bob Preusse added to this discussion on May 17, 2015
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"The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves.”
― William Shakespeare, Julius Caesar
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Discussion Topic: Off Topic
Lou Demas added to this discussion on May 18, 2015
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Steve,
I realize Dr. Gosnell is recent times, my question to you since you brought the black power movement, is where did they go and why are they not protesting the disparity between why do locate majority of abortion in minority communities where doctors like Dr.Gosnell prey the poor. Yasser Arafat said it was the Battle of the wombs many years ago and look at how powerful Muslims communities are becoming. . Surely somebody in the Black Power movement would realize somebody decleared war on the wombs with black women even if they are pro choice. So what happened to the movement and why don't they care the 80% of abortion clinics are put in minority communities and Black woman are 3.-5 times more likely to have them, let alone that there are no riots after a doctor is severing the spines of black children that are born alive?
Brandon,
Even in the manner in which you replied to my questions reflects why I believe you are the #generation on social issues (not talking about your personal photos or jokes of the day). You do a quick Google search and find an article that says "Porn is Good for You" and you offer it up as some sort of substantial proof that is I wonder if you even read the article because my generation interprets it completely different than your genaeration. the article says if you watch more porn you will want to have more sex by yourself and with a partner but even if you find your partner attractive you will find yourself fantasizing about other things help you along. so I ask you what is good about this, you masturbate more and you have the throw in a midget to help you achieve climax with a woman you love...or don't? And then you ask what does this have to do with morality? nothing I guess and now we're back to extreme personal responsibility just out there to pleasure oneself.There was an Eastern Orthodox Saint who said and I'm paraphrasing that hell is billions of people all crammed together with none of them being able to look the other one in the face. I've often ask my friends who don't seem to have a problem with pornography would you recommend it to someone you love to do for living?If your moms short money would you recommend that she auditions for Anal Cougars 5? and if you would not recommend it to somebody you love why would you think of it as something good for somebody else's mom or daughter?
You also are over simplifying the rise in divorce rates, just do to women getting into the job force. that is a factor but you have to take into consideration that people who attend religious services regularly have a much lower divorce rate.Then you should look into the rates your generation lives together without getting married. and how high their rates are for divorce if they do get married and how many we don't even make it to marriage compared to my generation.. Also compare children being born out of wedlock from my generation to yours then Google statistics on issues children have the come from single parent homes and that and economic status.
So again we moving towards a more secular society and the family unit is breaking down because of it,what are we going to replace religion with? Marx said religion is the opiate of the masses so he got rid of it and look how many people Stalin and Mao killed and we realize pretty fast fear is what has replaced religion traditionally. and look what's happening now are we moving towards a free society or are we moving towards a more restrictive society?
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Discussion Topic: Off Topic
Brandon Gambucci added to this discussion on May 18, 2015
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@Lou,
I guess I still don't know what is wrong with watching porn and how that affects the morality of my generation. I also started off by saying I don't really know anything about the topic. I honestly think it is entirely irrelevant to the conversation. Also "throw in a midget to help you achieve climax with a woman you love...or don't?," not sure as to how many people happen to have this preference, but hey, people like what they like I guess.
I don't think I'm oversimplifying divorce rates at all. And like I mentioned, divorce rates have been declining since the 1980's. So, if we want to make that argument, our generation is in fact of better morality than the previous ones because we have less divorce. Again, though, I don't think the fact that there are more divorces makes one generation more or less better than another. I mean, isn't it better that women who were in abusive marriages are able to divorce and support themselves and their families nowadays? Not that that is the standard for divorce, but my point being that you can't just take a floating stat like divorce rates and apply them to morality.
One of the reasons for the rise of secularity happens to do with education. The millennials are the most educated generation in human history. (Again, not saying this has anything to do with a generation being better or worse). Statistically speaking, people who are more well educated are more secular. And speaking of secularity, the MOST secular countries in the world right now are the most economically successful, have the lowest crime rates, and the happiest citizens. (see Sweden, Denmark, Norway, etc.). I'm not saying that is specifically the reason behind it, but just providing a counter-argument that secularity causes immorality and social decay, which it does not.
As for addressing the "out of wedlock birthrates," teen pregnancies as of 2012 are the LOWEST since the end of WW2. "The number of births to teenagers aged 15–19 dropped 7% during 2011–2012, to 305,420, the fewest since the end of
World War II." (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr62/nvsr62_03.pdf) Weddings are expensive, and it was a heck of a lot more socially acceptable to get married in your teen years back in the day.
You're correct about children being (slightly) worse off if they are raised from single-parent homes. This is an issue with poverty, not morality IMO. It absolutely needs to be addressed.
We're definitely moving to a freer society. We have a long way to go, don't get me wrong, but the fact that an individual can express his or her sexuality through a civil union (in many states, at least), is definitely a start. With the advent of the internet, educational freedom is booming. No longer does one have to be born with the wealth and resources to become educated. That is certainly one type of freedom. I can't think of many things that have become more restrictive in the time I've been alive (sans the Patriot Act, eek).
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Rick Wasmer added to this discussion on May 18, 2015
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Preference for midget porn is small. ;)
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Steve Lester added to this discussion on May 18, 2015
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"Steve,
I realize Dr. Gosnell is recent times, my question to you since you brought the black power movement, is where did they go and why are they not protesting the disparity between why do locate majority of abortion in minority communities where doctors like Dr.Gosnell prey the poor."
I brought it up because I viewed the black power movement as in important addition to Bob's third and final May 5th post. What happened to it besides war being declared on it by some elements of the government? No clue, other than anecdotal snippets from news reports.
I DO know that the local government headed by Mayor Ralph Locher, decided that he Hough riots were caused by outside instigators with a heavy leavening of communists. Part of that was a grand jury called for the express purpose of investigating the cause of the riots. The former editor of the Cleveland Press was it's foreman. They officially blamed communist sympathizers and some group for providing a "safe house" for bomb making etc.
So that narrative was sent forth. Black power = communists.
Even at age 14 I could tell that that was the biggest bunch of junk. Total BS.
As far as abortion, I dismissed it at the time. College kids were protest happy then. Everybody had a cause.
If I thought about it later, I tended to blame eugenics, rightly or wrongly. I suspected that pseudo science arose as a result of a demand.
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Discussion Topic: Off Topic
Lou Demas added to this discussion on May 18, 2015
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Brandon,
Well I guess there should be no more pot shots from my generation.Porn is no longer a moral issue. Your generation is not less Moral than mine, it's just that porn is not moral issue. It must be liberating for your generation to be able to send a clip of your moms latest double penetration movie to all of their face book friends to help her make money. My old-fashioned generation could not even phantom this. Past generations married during depression and recessions what your generation can save money by shacking up and who needs to make love to develop an intimate relationship with your partner when you can just have sex with them while thinking about a porno you masturbated to earlier that day . kudos to your generation keeping live birth rates down by putting 80% of abortion clinics in minority communities.I mean the National Socialist Party got in a lot of trouble back in Germany right after the war for weeding out their undesirables,guess you can't weed them out on the back end,if you catch them on the front end it's good and good for them.
I guess us regularly attending church folk with our low divorce rates and our children being less likely to suffer from depression addiction poverty and suicide should just take a back seat and let you guys drive.
Those riots must have just happened in a vacuum!
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Mark Niemann added to this discussion on May 18, 2015
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Quote from Lou Demas's post:
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"...
I guess us regularly attending church folk with our
low divorce rates
and our children being less likely to suffer from depression addiction poverty and suicide should just take a back seat and let you guys drive.
Those riots must have just happened in a vacuum!"
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Divorce rates among church goers is no lower or higher than the national average. ...to its shame.
However, you make a valid point in your post, Lou. If things are no longer moral or immoral, but rather, just are (amoral), how much more free will we be? Unfortunately, if morality does exist at all, we have deluded ourselves.
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Lou Demas added to this discussion on May 18, 2015
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Mark,
Regularly attending churchgoer do you have a much lower rate of divorce,Catholics are second to the lowest and practiceing Jews were the very lowest. the Barna studies that are often quoted as saying that people divorce rates are equal for the religious and secular, didn't differentiate from those who are regularly attending vs those who just claimed to have a religious faith.
Also recent studies show, as they have in the past, regularly attending churchgoers are the happiest as compared to the those who don't.
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Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on May 18, 2015
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Jewish women are 7x more likely to stay in an abusive relationship (this is shocking to me!). The reason? Orthodox women are under immense communal pressure to stay married regardless of the circumstances. They are ostracized if they leave.
People's circumstances play an overwhelming role in their behaviors. It has alway been the case.
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