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Discussion Topic: Decline of high school wrestling powers
Bruce Andrews added to this discussion on May 21, 2015
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Hello,
10 or 15 years ago Easton and Northampton were perennial national high school wrestling powers. You don't hear much about their programs these days. I always assumed that it was due to the coaches retiring or moving to new positions but I don't know if that is actually the case for those two programs.
I am curious about the St Ed's program, which seems to be somewhat on a decline in the last 3 or 4 years, at least on the national level. What confuses me is that I think the coaching staff is still mainly intact. Is there another reason for their recent decline? Is their decline temporary or permanent?
Thanks,
Bruce
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Discussion Topic: Decline of high school wrestling powers
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on May 21, 2015
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Lehigh Valley great wrestling area, but hard for public schools to be consistently top. Steve Powell is still great coach at Easton, Dave Crowell at Nazareth. But these schools don't have even open enrollment like many ohio schools have. Bethlehem Catholic the power now in Lehigh Valley.
St Eds will be very good this year-- as MarkN likes to point out they have been hurt recently by the dreaded "pop loss". Cuyahoga County has shrunk since 1970 while others like Columbus area have grown rapidly.
headline today:
"Detroit, Cleveland, Toledo lead U.S. in population loss; San Jose now among 10 cities above 1 million"
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Discussion Topic: Decline of high school wrestling powers
Bruce Andrews added to this discussion on May 22, 2015
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Bob,
Thanks for the response. In St Ed's situation, population loss does not seem like the reason for the decline since they can draw students from a wide area. In addition, their football team won the state championship this past year and that requires a large squad.
I think that the coaches are simply running out of steam as they get close to the end of their teaching careers.
Bruce
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Discussion Topic: Decline of high school wrestling powers
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on May 22, 2015
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Quote from Bruce Andrews's post:
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"Bob,
Thanks for the response. In St Ed's situation, population loss does not seem like the reason for the decline since they can draw students from a wide area. In addition, their football team won the state championship this past year and that requires a large squad.
I think that the coaches are simply running out of steam as they get close to the end of their teaching careers.
Bruce"
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They (the team and coaches) aren't that bad! Plus, I think a population decrease would have an impact.
In total, I'm surethe coaches have lost a little steam. It happens. Hopefully, for the Eagles sake, they can get some youngbloods pumping through with the same desire, work ethic, and character as in the past.
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Discussion Topic: Decline of high school wrestling powers
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on May 22, 2015
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Open enrollment has changed the game. Graham, Mass Perry, Wadsworth, Brecksville and Elyria all have it. If you're a public school and can draw from an entire county (at least), it gives you a huge advantage. Attending Eds requires paying tuition.
There is a young man on Flo who won an Ohio jr high state championship. He is asked about high school. He says the plan is to go to either Brecksville or Elyria. Those two school are 35.7 miles apart. And that's not taking into account where this young man actually lives.
I'm old school. I think you should go to school where you live unless your family chooses to prioritize a private education. But the wrestling coaches of these schools and others like them didn't create this situation. It's more a football and basketball thing.
By the way--Erik Burnett and family have trained a ton of kids who have starred for other programs including a handful of kids from Monroeville.
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Discussion Topic: Decline of high school wrestling powers
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on May 22, 2015
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I suppose I'm confused about this apparent downfall of St. Edward. In a season when many projected them to be down, they finished 15th in the country.
Not too shabby.
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Discussion Topic: Decline of high school wrestling powers
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on May 22, 2015
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"...
I'm old school.
I think you should go to school where you live unless your family chooses to prioritize a private education
. But the wrestling coaches of these schools and others like them didn't create this situation. It's more a football and basketball thing.
..."
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Ditto.
I sometimes feel as if I've been lifted from an era that had school pride coursing through its veins and subplanted in this day and age, all in a giant sociology experiment to see whether man cracks and caves in or holds true to the idea of school pride and the like.
All people bleed red. For a select few, we bleed red and black. Go Cruisers!
-------
Ethan: What more evidence is needed? 15th!?!?!?!?! Just awful.
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Discussion Topic: Decline of high school wrestling powers
Bruce Andrews added to this discussion on May 22, 2015
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Obviously St Ed's is a great team. They have won many mythical national championships in the past and they haven't been in the running for one for a while. However, I am not trying to pick on them. I am more interested in this from an academic standpoint: why do dynasties go into decline? Coaching changes and population loss are good reasons. Having a school go from male only to coed is another. Sometimes it has to do with economic decline of the communities in which the schools are located. Perhaps the principal has decided to de-emphasize sports. I don't know the particular reasons for St Ed's but was curious why some of the traditional high school wrestling powers that were very strong in the 1990 to 2010 time period are now struggling a bit.
On the college level it seems like many of the premier college programs are able to remain strong for many decades.
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Discussion Topic: Decline of high school wrestling powers
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on May 22, 2015
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Quote from Bruce Andrews's post:
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"Obviously St Ed's is a great team. They have won many mythical national championships in the past and they haven't been in the running for one for a while. However, I am not trying to pick on them. I am more interested in this from an academic standpoint: why do dynasties go into decline? "
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Bruce, u make interesting observations.
Right now there are 3 public high school national "dynasties" i know of in wrestling: SPGraham, Clovis Calif., Apple Valley Mn. Look at the coaches and the enrollement situation, those are the 2 main factors.
imo open enrollment is the only way a public high school NOWADAYS can stay on top for long periods, UNLESS in rare cases they have a super coach, example Mike Milkovich Maple Heights 1951-1977.
u cited Lehigh Valley schools which i am familiar with, Northampton, Easton, Nazareth who do Not have open enrollment. Steve Powell of Easton and Dave Crowell of Nazareth are still great coaches but, to an extent, a coach is only as good as the talent that walks thru his door.
(***BTW Hank, per your post, i re-checked with coach Haverdill-- among the schools u listed as having open enrollment Brecksville in fact does NOT have open enrollment.)
Bruce, when i mentioned "population loss in Cuyahoga County", i was referring to its effects which include less talent in the county to go around. Greater Cleveland wrestling youth clubs incl CYO not what they were in the 70s & 80s, part of the reason is "cultural" too, a different breed of kids today.
Another factor high tuiton at private schools- financial aid based on need is given but no athletic scholarships at Catholic schools. Tuition has in fact sky-rocketed in recent years. And when there are other excellent coaches out there at public schools in Greater Cleveland like Erik Burnett, Haverdill, John Gramuglia for many theres no reason to leave home.
but St Eds coaches still doing great job, its just harder now imo than 20-30 years ago when talent was so plentiful in the area and tuition much much less.. ... s/BobP
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Discussion Topic: Decline of high school wrestling powers
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on May 22, 2015
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Well, I was misinformed regarding Brecksville.
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Discussion Topic: Decline of high school wrestling powers
Steve Lester added to this discussion on June 7, 2015
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I've followed track and field off and on, since my sons elected to be runners instead of wrestlers. Remember what was called the "mini state meet"?
Checking out yesterday's state track meet finals, we see the Cleveland area not faring all that well (Cleveland public schools lack of participants was rather glaring).
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