|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: All Star Rules
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on November 2, 2015
|
1) Loved the 3 pt TD. Made for MORE ACTION! Hooray!
2) 4 pt NF is fine.
3) If bottom gets to his feet and top runs him out of bounds, top should be called for stalling. This will force top guy to cut bottom man.
4) Any rule that decreases the amount of time we watch top and bottom do nothing is a good one. Next we have to get rid of riding time so there is less incentive for top guy to ride without scoring.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: All Star Rules
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on November 2, 2015
|
Clairfication (although I think you are stating this): it's not more points being scored that we want, it's more action that we want. I often read people stating "and that means more points". Make a TD worth 100 points will give and end result of more points but it doesn't change the fact that we want more action.
I still like David Taylor's view - if NFs are not earned then no RT-1 is awarded. Additionally, I have come to embrace the idea that if the top wrestler wants to go neutral, he can signal "neutral" to the ref without surrendering a point to the bottom wrestler IF AND ONLY IF the request is made after a stop in the action (OOB, BT, etc). (Note: if wrestler B chooses bottom to start the period and wrestler A signals neutral, bottom wrestler would be awarded E-1.)
I'm not sure why this isn't even an option. Lastly, I think it incentivizes top wrestling as well as creates the opportunity for neutral wrestling. And, perhaps most importantly, it's fewer rules and leaves nothing to official's judgment.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: All Star Rules
Brandon Sommers added to this discussion on November 2, 2015
|
I know I'm in the minority on this site...but....
I disliked the three point takedown. It did not create more action. Look at the actual number of takedowns per match. The final scores might look inflated, but it was the same amount of actual scoring. Nate wouldn't have had less than his two takedowns if he knew he only got 2 points for them. Two of the matches ended 1-1 after regulation. Another ended 2-1. I think the rules should reward a well-rounded wrestler. Encourage action, but not at the expense of over-valuing a single aspect of the sport.
I also am opposed to eliminating riding time, or allowing a wrestler to cut his opponent without giving up a point for the same reason. If the bottom wrestler can get to his feet, but not actually escape....shame on him. He needs to improve. He is an inferior wrestler in that aspect of the sport.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: All Star Rules
Chris Shepherd added to this discussion on November 2, 2015
|
I think there will always be disagreement on the riding time and escape points. These arguments have gone on for years and will continue between international fans and folkstyle purists. With that said, I think the 3 pt takedown is something that can be rolled in immediately to the chagrin of almost everyone. I DO feel like it generates more action on the feet. And it places a greater importance on being technically sound from all positions. On the mat, if you turn a guy you can get 2 or 3 points. Whereas cutting him loose only merits 1 point for your opponent. The 3 point takedown allows this same point exchange from the feet as is allowed on the mat.
If you felt like more action wasn't generated from their feet last night, a major reason may have been because these are the most elite level kids in the sport and their defense is on point. They're going to have limited scoring in these matches if a takedown is worth 2, 3 or 5 points.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: All Star Rules
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on November 2, 2015
|
Interestingly, the wrestlers I liked least were all from Lehigh. They did not actively look to score.
I am intrigued by the D.T. rule. No backs...no riding point. I can live with that.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: All Star Rules
Chris Shepherd added to this discussion on November 2, 2015
|
Yeah, I think that's a simple addition to implement that makes sense and promotes action.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: All Star Rules
Mike Taylor added to this discussion on November 3, 2015
|
Initially I didn't like the 3pt TD. However, I believe it has a BIG upside that wasn't seen during the All Star meet. The big one is captured in the following scenario:
Under the old rules Wrestler A could score a TD in the 1st period while wrestler B gets an escape in the 1st and 2nd periods tying the score at 2 all. This forces Wrestler A to take bottom and if he doesn't escape will lose despite wrestler B never scoring an offensive point. W/ the 3pt TD this requires more than some escapes in order to steal the match.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: All Star Rules
Dan Strope added to this discussion on November 3, 2015
|
I am also in the minority and don't like the 3 point takedown. I really don't think making a takedown worth more than a two second near fall exposure is fair.
We can play endless scenarios on scoring situations but how about this one. You get a first and second period takedown for a 6-0 lead. I put you down in the third. I dominate you from the top position by riding you for 2:00 plus I turn you twice for a 3 second count. You win 6-5 despite me earning two sets near fall and holding you down for 2:00. What's next a tech fall being worth 6 and a pin worth 4?
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: All Star Rules
Dan Harris added to this discussion on November 3, 2015
|
|
Quote from Dan Strope's post:
|
|
"I am also in the minority and don't like the 3 point takedown. I really don't think making a takedown worth more than a two second near fall exposure is fair.
We can play endless scenarios on scoring situations but how about this one. You get a first and second period takedown for a 6-0 lead. I put you down in the third. I dominate you from the top position by riding you for 2:00 plus I turn you twice for a 3 second count. You win 6-5 despite me earning two sets near fall and holding you down for 2:00. What's next a tech fall being worth 6 and a pin worth 4?"
|
With the new nearfall rules, if the turn the guy twice for 4 seconds each and ride him out, you'd be up 9-6.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: All Star Rules
Tim McIntyre added to this discussion on November 3, 2015
|
i would like to see (high school and college) that a forfeit would be worth 7 in a duel .... it would increase involvement ... the idea that a void is worth more than a pin would encourage coaches to fill those voids even if it were a automatic 6
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: All Star Rules
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on November 3, 2015
|
Tim -- spot on. That should absolutely happen.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: All Star Rules
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on November 3, 2015
|
Tim and Brady: I feel where you're coming from. We have a huge issue in our sport regarding dual meets. They used to matter a lot more to individual programs. Now, all anyone cares about is tournament performance. It's the great equalizer for a team with low numbers but a few good wrestlers.
The bigger issue is we have fourteen weight classes, they're distributed inequitably to the upper weights, and not enough participants.
Coaches started de-valuing duals because they couldn't fill out their lineups. We need to re-assess weight class distribution and drop 1-2 weights. That's a start.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: All Star Rules
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on November 3, 2015
|
|
Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
|
|
"The bigger issue is we have fourteen weight classes, they're distributed inequitably to the upper weights, and not enough participants.
Coaches started de-valuing duals because they couldn't fill out their lineups. We need to re-assess weight class distribution and drop 1-2 weights. That's a start."
|
this is true Hank, a reduction in weight class numbers seems called for.
u may recall there was much debate following NFHS ill-conceived weight class changes of 2011, in their words "the goal is to create wt classes with approx 7 % in each." Has that been done, certainly no it hasnt.
apparently weight class change were made with minimum input from most state coaches organizations-- and once a bureaucracy makes a decision helll will have to freeze over to undo it.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: All Star Rules
Tim McIntyre added to this discussion on November 3, 2015
|
correct me if im wrong but didnt tOSU loose a duel by criteria that the other team didnt send out someone to wrestle Logan?
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: All Star Rules
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on November 3, 2015
|
Wrestling coaches need to get off their rears, promote their sport in their school, recruit in their hallways, and get kids out. It is difficult but it absolute can be done.
Reduce weights, no thanks.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
