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Discussion Topic: NCWA adds Women's Collegiate Division
Jeff McCall added to this discussion on July 29, 2007

Press release http://www.ncwa.net/news?news_id=266



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Discussion Topic: NCWA adds Women's Collegiate Division
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on August 2, 2007

Every day I become more convinced that the NCWA is the future of collegiate wrestling. We will be a non-revenue sport but we will continue on. This is another example of their foresightedness.



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Discussion Topic: NCWA adds Women's Collegiate Division
Dan Cosimi added to this discussion on August 2, 2007

I love what the NCWA has been doing. I'm a big supporter.

But... it's sad that the NCAA (the "big dog") does not embrace wrestling - especially for such ignorant reasons as the ones they give.

Title IX should never have been put into action.

"Title IX: Destroying the dreams of millions, one team at a time."



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Discussion Topic: NCWA adds Women's Collegiate Division
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on August 3, 2007

The problem with Title 9 isn't the notion that women deserve greater opportunities. It's how compliance is determined.



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Discussion Topic: NCWA adds Women's Collegiate Division
Dan Cosimi added to this discussion on August 3, 2007

No, the problem with Title IX is that it never should have happened. There are ways to give women more opportunities without taking away opportunities from men.

Without getting overly philosophical or political... our American society has made major strides to establish equality for everyone in age, gender, race, nationality, ability or disability, and more. Some have been focused on more than others. Most of it has been for the good of all, some of it hasn't.

Title IX is one that hasn't. When I exit my dorm room and see a sign posted that says "Sign up for Women's Crew and get a scholarship" and then see that the entire SEC and most of the Big 12, PAC-10, and other major conferences (let alone the smaller ones...) dropped wrestling entirely... and this elimination of our sport still going with Oregon being the latest victim... yeah, that's not promoting equality. That's just shifting the victims.

By the way, it's not only wrestling... this is a problem with all men's athletics not named football or basketball.

"Title IX: Destroying the dreams of millions, one team at a time."



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Discussion Topic: NCWA adds Women's Collegiate Division
John Flanigan added to this discussion on August 6, 2007

Dan, while it will be frowned on in a wrestling forum, I am going to have to totally disagree with your assessment. Title IX was necessary, especially when you consider how the country was in 1972. Women were seen as second class citizens and they still are in certain areas of the country. The only way to get action was through legislation, because there would be very little voluntary change.

However, it was the execution of the law that is a travesty. It was never intended to be used as a tool to drop men's programs, only to expand women's. Obviously, this is not how it has played out and that responsibilty falls on the judicial branch. Time and again, lawsuits have been brought up and the only test that seems to matter is the first prong of the three prongs. Schools have never been successful when trying to prove the other two prongs.



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Discussion Topic: NCWA adds Women's Collegiate Division
Dan Cosimi added to this discussion on August 6, 2007

John,

I won't argue with you on the fact that Title IX did a lot of women's athletics or your point that it was necessary for legislation to step in and help the women. I agree with you on that.

However, I must disagree with your opinion that Title IX was the correct way to do it, though. I'm all for equality between genders. I'm not for this new pseudo-equality that tells wrestling programs that they aren't part of that equality.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the problem is that we wanted to give women opportunities, and in doing so, we overcompensated and took opportunities away from men... and never looked back.

Regardless of this debate, the unfortunate reality is that Title IX is in place right now. We need to get it out, ASAP. I'm not saying to abandon giving women opportunities, but we should not do it at the cost of men's opportunities. There are surely enough resources for both.

Just my $0.02.



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Discussion Topic: NCWA adds Women's Collegiate Division
Dan Cosimi added to this discussion on August 7, 2007

Regarding my statement that "there are surely enough resources for both"... Let's remember that the NCAA is a multi billion dollar organization and universities have money to fund everything from football to golf to fencing. Taking the SEC schools as an example: Florida, Auburn, Tennesssee, Alabama, South Carolina, Arkansas, Louisiana State, etc. I'm sure they're not hurting for money. Wrestling would be a mere coin in their pocket.

Cuyahoga Community College and Lakeland Community College used to have very good wrestling programs. Title IX finished them. This is not a money issue. It is a pseudo-equalization issue.



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Discussion Topic: NCWA adds Women's Collegiate Division
Brian Nicola added to this discussion on August 7, 2007

My own college team was a Title IX victim, but we need to be honest here. Dan, you might be too young to remember (heck, even I am a bit too young), but women's sports were NON-EXISTENT prior to Title IX. When my mom was in HS, a girl could do two things: cheer or majorette. That's it. Basketball was played on a sectioned court (intramural of course) because it was believed women's bodies couldn't take the stress of running up and down the court or their Uteruses woudl fall out (as pleasant as that sounds). That was 1968. My younger sister graduated in 2000 and received scholly to play soccer. She was a legit DI mid-level player who had a nice college career, a career that would not have even been an option 30 years ago.

Look, I hate what title IX has become. I ahte it with every fiber in my entire body. But to say it wasn't neccessary . . . well, that is just living in a fantasy world. It was beyond neccessary.

It has just become this three-pronged monster that no one can control.



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Discussion Topic: NCWA adds Women's Collegiate Division
Ken Ramsey Sr. added to this discussion on August 8, 2007

Brian:

You are exactly right, my wife and sister were both good athletes back in the mid 60"s who were never afforded the opportunity to compete. Thank God by the time my daughters were at competing age Title IX had brought us out of the stone ages. Title IX is not the problem, the problem is the administrators that take advantage of Title IX to rid their school of minor sports that cost them money.



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Discussion Topic: NCWA adds Women's Collegiate Division
Dan Cosimi added to this discussion on August 13, 2007

Brian, Ken, etc.:

As I said above, I agree that legislation needed to be used to give both genders abundant opportunities.

My point is that Title IX was a bad peice of legislation and it in itself should never have been passed. So, yes, legislation should have been passed, but not that.

"They" passed Title IX to increase opportunities in America, "the land of opportunity." Unfortunately, it did not do that, and we were too one-track-minded to think about the reprocussions of this particular piece of legislation, and the fact that it is not necessarily aiding in giving opportunities, but merely switching the gender of the people who opportunities are given to.

That's not equality.



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Discussion Topic: NCWA adds Women's Collegiate Division
Ken Ramsey Sr. added to this discussion on August 15, 2007

Equality = Both male and female athletes being able to participate in the sport of their choice.

We have never had equality in sports anyway, look how many kids who want to participate never get to compete for various reasons. (Can't afford, have no transportation, don't make the team [the best players don't always make it in team sports], sport not available, etc., etc., etc.)



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Discussion Topic: NCWA adds Women's Collegiate Division
Jeff McCall added to this discussion on August 19, 2007

Will any of the Ohio colleges be fielding a women's team this season?



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