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Discussion Topic: Possible HS rules changes
Jim Behrens added to this discussion on February 10, 2016
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Knowing that this forum is mostly college oriented, I though you might like to see part of a survey about possible rules changes for HS for next year. I want to stress that this is just a survey and might not have any sort of direct effect.
Part III — About rules for 2016-17 – Would you favor?
1. Allowing multiple entries at the same weight class for an individual wrestling tournament.
Yes
No
2. Mandating black or dark colors from the waist down on singlets.
Yes
No
3. In a tournament with a full complement of teams, byes being counted the same as forfeits in the team scoring.
Yes
No
4. In dual meet scoring, having a forfeit be worth more team points than a fall to reinforce the importance of presenting a wrestler because it has value to the team.
Yes
No
5. Re-evaluating the current wrestling weight classes for possible modifications to accommodate state associations that currently do not use NFHS weight classes.
Yes
No
6. Adding a chair in the corner for the school’s athletic trainer/medical personnel only.
Yes
No
7. Returning to starting duals at the lowest weight classification.
Yes
No
8. Wrestlers being charged for stalling when one or both wrestlers leave the wrestling area when there is no scoring attempt being made.
Yes
No
9. Near fall and fall points being awarded without regard to the out-of-bounds line as long as wrestling is continuing with wrestlers deemed to be in bounds by the official.
Yes
No
10. Separate warnings and false starts in the Penalty Chart:
a. For False Starts: Warning, Warning, 1 point penalty.
b. For Incorrect Starting Positions: Warning, Warning, Warning, 1 point penalty.
Yes
No
11. A rule change discouraging the shaking of hands with the wrestlers between opponents, opposing coaches and officials until after the dual meet.
Yes
No
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Discussion Topic: Possible HS rules changes
Jared Ball added to this discussion on February 10, 2016
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I'm curious....why the concern over needing dark colors on the bottom half? Personally I like what flonationals has done with the mma style shorts. I think that may be a move in the right direction for fringe athletes considering wrestling.
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Discussion Topic: Possible HS rules changes
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on February 10, 2016
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Part III — About rules for 2016-17 – Would you favor?
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Quote from Jim Behrens's post:
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"1. Allowing multiple entries at the same weight class for an individual wrestling tournament."
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Don't we already do this? Non-scoring extras??? Or is this in regards to the state tournament process? If so, I'm not overly sold one way or the other.
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Quote from Jim Behrens's post:
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"2. Mandating black or dark colors from the waist down on singlets."
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No. Compression shirts with shorts is a better way to go. (I like giving the option. Singlet or modified uniform.)
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Quote from Jim Behrens's post:
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"3. In a tournament with a full complement of teams, byes being counted the same as forfeits in the team scoring."
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No.
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Quote from Jim Behrens's post:
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"4. In dual meet scoring, having a forfeit be worth more team points than a fall to reinforce the importance of presenting a wrestler because it has value to the team."
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I don't mind this. #DotNet contributor Brady Hiatt has been suggesting this for years.
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Quote from Jim Behrens's post:
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"5. Re-evaluating the current wrestling weight classes for possible modifications to accommodate state associations that currently do not use NFHS weight classes."
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Why would state associations agree to the next set of weight classes? Is this the NFHS' way of admitting that these current weight classes gutted the middle of the spectrum??? Whatevs.
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Quote from Jim Behrens's post:
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"6. Adding a chair in the corner for the school’s athletic trainer/medical personnel only."
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Don't care.
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Quote from Jim Behrens's post:
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"7. Returning to starting duals at the lowest weight classification."
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No. I like the blind draw. I think it adds to the event.
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Quote from Jim Behrens's post:
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"8. Wrestlers being charged for stalling when one or both wrestlers leave the wrestling area when there is no scoring attempt being made."
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No. It is AWFUL in college and will be worse in high school.
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Quote from Jim Behrens's post:
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"9. Near fall and fall points being awarded without regard to the out-of-bounds line as long as wrestling is continuing with wrestlers deemed to be in bounds by the official."
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Wouldn't mind but I think HS gyms would have a tough time accommodating this availability.
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Quote from Jim Behrens's post:
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"10. Separate warnings and false starts in the Penalty Chart:
a. For False Starts: Warning, Warning, 1 point penalty.
b. For Incorrect Starting Positions: Warning, Warning, Warning, 1 point penalty."
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Meh.
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Quote from Jim Behrens's post:
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"11. A rule change discouraging the shaking of hands with the wrestlers between opponents, opposing coaches and officials until after the dual meet."
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No need for this rule.
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Last edited by Mark Niemann on February 11, 2016; edited 2 times in total
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Discussion Topic: Possible HS rules changes
Dan Strope added to this discussion on February 10, 2016
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1. Allowing multiple entries at the same weight class for an individual wrestling tournament." - No
2. Mandating black or dark colors from the waist down on singlets." - Indifferent
3.In a tournament with a full complement of teams, byes being counted the same as forfeits in the team scoring." -Yes, why not?
4.In dual meet scoring, having a forfeit be worth more team points than a fall to reinforce the importance of presenting a wrestler because it has value to the team.-Yes. On a trial basis. Different idea and I like the out of box thinking.
5. Re-evaluating the current wrestling weight classes for possible modifications to accommodate state associations that currently do not use NFHS weight classes - No. The sport seems to take a step backwards everytime they do this. Before long the first weight class will be 126 and we will be saddled with weights every 5 pounds after 200 until we get to 285...Leave it alone.
6. Adding a chair in the corner for the school’s athletic trainer/medical personnel only - Indifferent but if they do I will predict that this will be the most abused and non enforced rule out there. Check out the corners at Pruesse's Ironman. Only change is that somebody sitting or kneeling on the mat edge will now have a chair. Just sayin'
7. Returning to starting duals at the lowest weight classification. Yes, hell yes. Meg Ryan take it away!
8. Wrestlers being charged for stalling when one or both wrestlers leave the wrestling area when there is no scoring attempt being made. -No. The less ref involvement the better. Disaster in college and high school officials would make their calls down right laughable.
9. Near fall and fall points being awarded without regard to the out-of-bounds line as long as wrestling is continuing with wrestlers deemed to be in bounds by the official - Yes. I like the idea. Forces kids to fight off their backs and not looking for the "oasis".
10. Separate warnings and false starts in the Penalty Chart:
a. For False Starts: Warning, Warning, 1 point penalty.
b. For Incorrect Starting Positions: Warning, Warning, Warning, 1 point penalty - No need for change here. Stop the rolling starts and the issue goes away.
11. A rule change discouraging the shaking of hands with the wrestlers between opponents, opposing coaches and officials until after the dual meet. -Yes. Again Meg Ryan take it away. Not needed and certain not a sign of disrespect but can lead to unnecessary "emotional exchanges" immediately after a bout. Ever notice what the majority of the college kids do? Straight back to their own bench. No harm and no foul. I like this rule.
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Discussion Topic: Possible HS rules changes
Alex Creech added to this discussion on February 10, 2016
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1. Same as Niemann
2. No
3. No
4. No, there are a lot of teams out there that just don't have the bodies for all weights.
5. No
6. Either way
7. No
8. No
9. Yes
10. No
11. NO!
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Discussion Topic: Possible HS rules changes
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on February 10, 2016
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i'm gonna pick these off one or two at a time, esp the bad ideas and there are some, as always.
1. Allowing multiple entries at the same weight class for an individual wrestling tournament.
already has been done - for years Ironman did it, was never against the rules was it? if so Ironman was before their time in breaking rules, lol. i dispensed with it when Barger brought me in 15 years ago, it caused ALOT of PROBLEMS, such as:
1. u can only have one pointgetter per wt per team. One out of state high ranked team made their non-pointgetter FF to their pointgetter in the quarters.
2. Parents of Blair kids were mad when their kids met each other early in tourn, if u have a fair seeding & random draw u cannot prevent it.
3. It was a mess, deciding who gets to enter xtra kids and who doesnt. Not every team has xtras to enter.
4. Do u seed a non-pointgetting wrestler? we did, we seeded a non-pointgetter st Eds kid and did not seed the pointgetter, LOL, needless to say st Eds not happy but it was what it was, the non-ptg kid had more seeding criteria.
5. Fact was No one wanted to face 2 st Eds or 2 Blair kids in same half bracket.
6. It was ugly, it had to go the way of the DoDo bird. I don't recommend it if u have a competitive tourn even if it passes. But i suppose their could be exceptions but it would have to be a tourn where no one really kept or cared about teams scores.
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Discussion Topic: Possible HS rules changes
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on February 11, 2016
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[quote="Mark Niemann"]
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Quote from Jim Behrens's post:
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"4. In dual meet scoring, having a forfeit be worth more team points than a fall to reinforce the importance of presenting a wrestler because it has value to the team.
I don't mind this. #DotNet contributor Brady Hiatt has been suggesting this for years."
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I've been suggesting it for years -- but for college.
In high school, I'd make number of forfeits the #1 tiebreaker in dual meets.
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Discussion Topic: Possible HS rules changes
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on February 11, 2016
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Alex: Concerning point #4 (Forfeits worth more than a pin in a dual meet)
When I was in Colorado I was exposed to something I never knew existed - 7 or 8-man football, sanctioned by the high school athletic association.
The eastern part of the state is a great expanse with farm land all around. The girl I was dating graduated from a school as big as my elementary school - AND HER SCHOOL WAS K-12!!!!! Her graduating class had 13 kids in it and one was an exchange student. It blew my mind!
Anywho, because of the limited population, the schools fielded 7 or 8-man teams. Why not offer a small(est) school division with lower number of weight classes???
Whatevs. I'll sit back and wait for Nicola (Scott or Brian - doesn't matter) to was eloquently on the fact that wrestling is an individual sport (as if I didn't know) and that anyone who wants to succeed, can.
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Discussion Topic: Possible HS rules changes
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on February 11, 2016
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Quote from Mark Niemann's post:
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"Anywho, because of the limited population, the schools fielded 7 or 8-man teams. Why not offer a small(est) school division with lower number of weight classes???"
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Not a bad idea -- but only for dual meets. You could still have duals between those divisions -- but "Default setting" should use more weight classes. Also, small schools could have option to move up to bigger division with full allotment of weight classes.
OR..... OHSAA could take page out of Minnesota's playbook and allow neighboring school districts to combine for certain sports with approval from each school board. Example: West Liberty-Salem has 2 kids on HS team this year; Triad has 6. Combine them and they have an actual "official" team. In Minnesota, there is one "team" that is comprised of four school districts. Less forfeits = good thing.
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Discussion Topic: Possible HS rules changes
Alex Creech added to this discussion on February 11, 2016
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Quote from Mark Niemann's post:
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"
Anywho, because of the limited population, the schools fielded 7 or 8-man teams. Why not offer a small(est) school division with lower number of weight classes???
"
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That's a good idea, but I still don't think forfeits should count more. Teams would still need to basically have 2 at every weight to avoid (and not even then) a potential forfeit. There are D1 teams that can't do that, let alone small schools.
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