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Discussion Topic: Bucks vs. PSU
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on February 4, 2017
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Quote from Steve Durose's post:
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Quote from Chris Thomas's post:
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"It was a reality check the bucks aren't good as PSU,Okt,and Iowa. We have to many holes in are lineup. In front of a record crowd we didnt provide a very good product.We wrestled more aggressive earlier in the season hopefully we can get back to that place come march. A good challenge still to come will be against Nebraska."
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Nonsense. First of all, no one is as good as PSU. They're going to win the national title going away. This year, next year, and the year after that.
Oklahoma St. might be better this year but if we're healthy I bet it's close. They have four senior starters. We have zero. This is their year and we still might beat them at nationals.
" Not as good as Iowa"? Are you basing this on a January dual at CHA with their refs? A dual we still would have won if our 285 wasn't busy winning the Yarygin? I'll just have to respectfully disagree here.I not only think we're better than Iowa, I don't think its all that close.
As far as Ohio State not "providing a good product", I guess we'll just have to disagree again. Here's what I saw; Nate by tech, Kyle by tech over #3 in the nation, freshman 197 beating #9 in the nation, 2 backups giving it their all against J. Nolf and M. Hall, Micah forcing the early action against one of the best 149s of all time and predictably coming up short, and Myles wrestling Nickal closer than anyone in the country has this year.
Penn St. is a monster that is going to roll over everyone this year. Ohio State is ,at worst, the third best team in the country this year. If, in your opinion, that's " not a good product", then so be it. I just disagree."
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Who said it: "Second place is not the standard."
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Discussion Topic: Bucks vs. PSU
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 4, 2017
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Quote from Joe Kinzel's post:
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"How different the outcome tonight if our lineup would have been:
125- Nate
133- Pletcher
141- Hayes
149- Micah
157- Ryan
165- White
174- BoJo
184- Martin
197- Moore
285- Snyder"
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Interesting post. Yes. This changes things. I remember going off the deep end a bit when Bucks lost to Lehigh. History repeats.
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Discussion Topic: Bucks vs. PSU
Rex Holman added to this discussion on February 4, 2017
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Based upon performance to date. It looks like PSU has 7-8 AAs and OSU has 3-4.
By virtue of Tomasello and Snyder,they account for close to 45 NCAA team points and IMO Moore has been the next most consistent performer.
Definitely not the degree of confidence that I had about the team at the beginning of the season. But, I will take two Champs any season.
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Discussion Topic: Bucks vs. PSU
Cory Surles added to this discussion on February 4, 2017
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Quote from Steve Durose's post:
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"
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Quote from Chris Thomas's post:
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"It was a reality check the bucks aren't good as PSU,Okt,and Iowa. We have to many holes in are lineup. In front of a record crowd we didnt provide a very good product.We wrestled more aggressive earlier in the season hopefully we can get back to that place come march. A good challenge still to come will be against Nebraska."
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Nonsense. First of all, no one is as good as PSU. They're going to win the national title going away. This year, next year, and the year after that.
Oklahoma St. might be better this year but if we're healthy I bet it's close. They have four senior starters. We have zero. This is their year and we still might beat them at nationals.
" Not as good as Iowa"? Are you basing this on a January dual at CHA with their refs? A dual we still would have won if our 285 wasn't busy winning the Yarygin? I'll just have to respectfully disagree here.I not only think we're better than Iowa, I don't think its all that close.
As far as Ohio State not "providing a good product", I guess we'll just have to disagree again. Here's what I saw; Nate by tech, Kyle by tech over #3 in the nation, freshman 197 beating #9 in the nation, 2 backups giving it their all against J. Nolf and M. Hall, Micah forcing the early action against one of the best 149s of all time and predictably coming up short, and Myles wrestling Nickal closer than anyone in the country has this year.
Penn St. is a monster that is going to roll over everyone this year. Ohio State is ,at worst, the third best team in the country this year. If, in your opinion, that's " not a good product", then so be it. I just disagree."
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Exactly!!!
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Discussion Topic: Bucks vs. PSU
Cory Surles added to this discussion on February 4, 2017
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All the favorites won!! You can say Pletcher was a fave because of the hire ranking but he was wrestling a senior all American who has been rated as high as #1. This is the same guy most view as the second worst starter on the team!! We wrestled 3 backups and if Bo wrestled and won it's probably 26-15 still a whopping! Penn State will dominate everyone including okie state! They probably win 7 matches to 3 with Okie state only the clear favorite in on match! Not the case against us, we just don't have the depth...Out big guns will keep us in the top 4 but it was over when Penn State pulled Halls redshirt...We always go through this around this time and peak in march! I'm not worried...my only complaint is getting road out! We have to fix that immediately!
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Discussion Topic: Bucks vs. PSU
Mark Cummings added to this discussion on February 4, 2017
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Just some observations.
Depth has been an issue for the bucks for years. After the first 10 there is a big drop off.
I thought the guys wrestled to their ability last night. No shame in that. Disappointing that they got shellacked but it happens.
Gulibon and Pletcher are close. Gulibon did a nice job keeping Luke from getting to his offense.
Myles was aggressive. He wasn't able to finish a couple nice shots. Nickel scored a couple takedowns off shots by Myles.
Moore is fun to watch. Always moving forward looking to score.
The bucks have had problems getting off bottom for a long time.
Not sure having Rosselli here would impact things for the better. The current coaches appear to be doing a fine job.
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Discussion Topic: Bucks vs. PSU
Chris Thomas added to this discussion on February 4, 2017
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Quote from Cory Surles's post:
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"All the favorites won!! You can say Pletcher was a fave because of the hire ranking but he was wrestling a senior all American who has been rated as high as #1. This is the same guy most view as the second worst starter on the team!! We wrestled 3 backups and if Bo wrestled and won it's probably 26-15 still a whopping! Penn State will dominate everyone including okie state! They probably win 7 matches to 3 with Okie state only the clear favorite in on match! Not the case against us, we just don't have the depth...Out big guns will keep us in the top 4 but it was over when Penn State pulled Halls redshirt...We always go through this around this time and peak in march! I'm not worried...my only complaint is getting road out! We have to fix that immediately!"
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So you suggested that everyone wrestled to their individual ranking in one instance then you contradict yourself with Pletcher's performance. My view of the dual was that we were out wrestled in all positions in front of 15000 Ohio State fans. If we improve on bottom and Bo comes back health we could finish top four. Also we need to pick up good seedings come March because MM and MJ are at brutal weight classes.
Also IMO you are undermining Okst capabilities against Penn State in a dual and national tourney.
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Discussion Topic: Bucks vs. PSU
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on February 4, 2017
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Quote from Chris Thomas's post:
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"...Also IMO you are undermining Okst capabilities against Penn State in a dual and national tourney."
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I do not think it is just him. Many I've talked to are dismissing the Cowboys. AND I HAVE NO IDEA WHY!!! I'm pretty sure they have ten guys ranked in the top 15. And are the only team in D-I Wrestling that can say that.
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Discussion Topic: Bucks vs. PSU
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on February 4, 2017
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Quote from Mark Niemann's post:
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"
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Quote from Chris Thomas's post:
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"...Also IMO you are undermining Okst capabilities against Penn State in a dual and national tourney."
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I do not think it is just him. Many I've talked to are dismissing the Cowboys. AND I HAVE NO IDEA WHY!!! I'm pretty sure they have ten guys ranked in the top 15. And are the only team in D-I Wrestling that can say that."
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Okie State vs PSU
125 PSU by major
133 OSU by tech
141 OSU by decision
149 PSU by major
157 PSU by major
165 PSU by decision
174 PSU by decision and has already majored him
184 PSU by decision
197 OSU by decision but a true toss up
Her. PSU by decision
PSU wins 24-9
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Discussion Topic: Bucks vs. PSU
Steve Durose added to this discussion on February 5, 2017
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Quote from Mark Niemann's post:
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"
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Quote from Steve Durose's post:
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"
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Quote from Chris Thomas's post:
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"It was a reality check the bucks aren't good as PSU,Okt,and Iowa. We have to many holes in are lineup. In front of a record crowd we didnt provide a very good product.We wrestled more aggressive earlier in the season hopefully we can get back to that place come march. A good challenge still to come will be against Nebraska."
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Nonsense. First of all, no one is as good as PSU. They're going to win the national title going away. This year, next year, and the year after that.
Oklahoma St. might be better this year but if we're healthy I bet it's close. They have four senior starters. We have zero. This is their year and we still might beat them at nationals.
" Not as good as Iowa"? Are you basing this on a January dual at CHA with their refs? A dual we still would have won if our 285 wasn't busy winning the Yarygin? I'll just have to respectfully disagree here.I not only think we're better than Iowa, I don't think its all that close.
As far as Ohio State not "providing a good product", I guess we'll just have to disagree again. Here's what I saw; Nate by tech, Kyle by tech over #3 in the nation, freshman 197 beating #9 in the nation, 2 backups giving it their all against J. Nolf and M. Hall, Micah forcing the early action against one of the best 149s of all time and predictably coming up short, and Myles wrestling Nickal closer than anyone in the country has this year.
Penn St. is a monster that is going to roll over everyone this year. Ohio State is ,at worst, the third best team in the country this year. If, in your opinion, that's " not a good product", then so be it. I just disagree."
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Who said it: "Second place is not the standard.""
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Penn St is the standard. I said it.
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Discussion Topic: Bucks vs. PSU
Cory Surles added to this discussion on February 5, 2017
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Quote from Chris Thomas's post:
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"
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Quote from Cory Surles's post:
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"All the favorites won!! You can say Pletcher was a fave because of the hire ranking but he was wrestling a senior all American who has been rated as high as #1. This is the same guy most view as the second worst starter on the team!! We wrestled 3 backups and if Bo wrestled and won it's probably 26-15 still a whopping! Penn State will dominate everyone including okie state! They probably win 7 matches to 3 with Okie state only the clear favorite in on match! Not the case against us, we just don't have the depth...Out big guns will keep us in the top 4 but it was over when Penn State pulled Halls redshirt...We always go through this around this time and peak in march! I'm not worried...my only complaint is getting road out! We have to fix that immediately!"
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So you suggested that everyone wrestled to their individual ranking in one instance then you contradict yourself with Pletcher's performance. My view of the dual was that we were out wrestled in all positions in front of 15000 Ohio State fans. If we improve on bottom and Bo comes back health we could finish top four. Also we need to pick up good seedings come March because MM and MJ are at brutal weight classes.
Also IMO you are undermining Okst capabilities against Penn State in a dual and national tourney."
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Pletcher was the favorite according to the rankings. But everyone knows it's a true toss up. And yes I am dismissing Okie State vs PSU for 3 reasons.
1. PSU will beat them by at least 12 points in a dual.
2. Okie State may have 10 all American candidates but I've been to nationals the last three years and watched a couple of their guys get upset every year. I think they get 6-8
3. PSU bonuses about 75% of their matches they win. OSU doesn't have any big bonus threats other than Rogers...others could get a fall or major here or there but they are not the threat PSU is every round.
I agree that with everything else you said
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Discussion Topic: Bucks vs. PSU
Cory Surles added to this discussion on February 5, 2017
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Quote from Chris Thomas's post:
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"
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Quote from Cory Surles's post:
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"All the favorites won!! You can say Pletcher was a fave because of the hire ranking but he was wrestling a senior all American who has been rated as high as #1. This is the same guy most view as the second worst starter on the team!! We wrestled 3 backups and if Bo wrestled and won it's probably 26-15 still a whopping! Penn State will dominate everyone including okie state! They probably win 7 matches to 3 with Okie state only the clear favorite in on match! Not the case against us, we just don't have the depth...Out big guns will keep us in the top 4 but it was over when Penn State pulled Halls redshirt...We always go through this around this time and peak in march! I'm not worried...my only complaint is getting road out! We have to fix that immediately!"
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So you suggested that everyone wrestled to their individual ranking in one instance then you contradict yourself with Pletcher's performance. My view of the dual was that we were out wrestled in all positions in front of 15000 Ohio State fans. If we improve on bottom and Bo comes back health we could finish top four. Also we need to pick up good seedings come March because MM and MJ are at brutal weight classes.
Also IMO you are undermining Okst capabilities against Penn State in a dual and national tourney."
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Pletcher was the favorite according to the rankings. But everyone knows it's a true toss up. And yes I am dismissing Okie State vs PSU for 3 reasons.
1. PSU will beat them by at least 12 points in a dual.
2. Okie State may have 10 all American candidates but I've been to nationals the last three years and watched a couple of their guys get upset every year. I think they get 6-8
3. PSU bonuses about 75% of their matches they win. OSU doesn't have any big bonus threats other than Rogers...others could get a fall or major here or there but they are not the threat PSU is every round.
I agree that with everything else you said
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Discussion Topic: Bucks vs. PSU
Justin Hayes added to this discussion on February 5, 2017
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PSU is simply better than the other teams...and having a good time being so.
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Discussion Topic: Bucks vs. PSU
Jared Ball added to this discussion on February 6, 2017
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Criticisms are warranted, but in my mind TR and company have earned enough of my trust to get the job done come March. It's February. With a strong performance at nationals no one will remember this dual. And since when have Ohio kids not struggled from bottom? We are not a mat wrestling state, IMO due to the style of refereeing. If you try to ride in Ohio you get hit for stalling. As a result escapes come a little easier. With the exception of Taylor (and Dake rode him all day) I have yet to see Graham kids that can get away from anyone. We are a neutral driven state. I'm not sure why that would change in college. Does it need to improve, yes. But its a systemic change, not just a collegiate one.
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Discussion Topic: Bucks vs. PSU
Cory Surles added to this discussion on February 19, 2017
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Quote from Chris Thomas's post:
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"
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Quote from Cory Surles's post:
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"All the favorites won!! You can say Pletcher was a fave because of the hire ranking but he was wrestling a senior all American who has been rated as high as #1. This is the same guy most view as the second worst starter on the team!! We wrestled 3 backups and if Bo wrestled and won it's probably 26-15 still a whopping! Penn State will dominate everyone including okie state! They probably win 7 matches to 3 with Okie state only the clear favorite in on match! Not the case against us, we just don't have the depth...Out big guns will keep us in the top 4 but it was over when Penn State pulled Halls redshirt...We always go through this around this time and peak in march! I'm not worried...my only complaint is getting road out! We have to fix that immediately!"
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So you suggested that everyone wrestled to their individual ranking in one instance then you contradict yourself with Pletcher's performance. My view of the dual was that we were out wrestled in all positions in front of 15000 Ohio State fans. If we improve on bottom and Bo comes back health we could finish top four. Also we need to pick up good seedings come March because MM and MJ are at brutal weight classes.
Also IMO you are undermining Okst capabilities against Penn State in a dual and national tourney."
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I think not!!! Lol
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