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Discussion Topic: B10 Pre-seeds
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on February 27, 2017

Here is a nice preview of B10 tournament.

http://www.goiowaawesome.com/iowa-hawkeyes-wrestling/2017/02/1187/2017-big-ten-wrestling-tournament-seed-projections

The pre-seeds are supposed to come out today.



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Discussion Topic: B10 Pre-seeds
Steve Durose added to this discussion on February 27, 2017

I don't see the justification for seeding Clark ahead of Richards. I also think 184 should be: 1) Nickal
2) Brooks
3) Martin
4) Dudley
5) Jackson
The writer of the linked article seems to be relying too much on W/L records, which, in my opinion, aren't as important as who you wrestle and when you wrestle them. Zane shouldn't be dinged for losing to Nato, while Clark gets rewarded for ducking him. Likewise, if I recall correctly, Jackson didn't wrestle Nickal or Martin and lost to both Dudley and Brooks (with a previous win over Brooks). How is that deserving of a #2 seed?



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Discussion Topic: B10 Pre-seeds
Pat Altvater added to this discussion on February 27, 2017

To your point Steve, that article was written from an IU supporter. While I stop short of claiming bias for them, it is my viewpoint that Iowa still thinks that the entire wrestling world revolves around them and no-one else is worthy!

My surprise was that they totally left Jose Rodrigiez out of their top 8 in the Big Ten and he's currently ranked 16th in the nation. Jose has only lost like 7 matches, and I think he lost one to each of the top 5 ranked guys, and he beat the current number 6. - They gave him no respect.



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Discussion Topic: B10 Pre-seeds
Mark Cummings added to this discussion on February 27, 2017

The pre-seeds have been announced.

http://intermatwrestle.com/articles/17871

Pat, I agree with you to an extent on Jose. He wrestled really well to begin the season but since maybe January he has mostly been down. Seems like the prevailing opinion is he's struggling with weight management. Will be interesting to see how he does on Saturday if he gets a nice break after weighing in. He got an 8 pre-seed so he will get Gilman pretty early.



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Discussion Topic: B10 Pre-seeds
Brian Nicola added to this discussion on February 27, 2017

Quote from Mark Cummings's post:

"The pre-seeds have been announced.

http://intermatwrestle.com/articles/17871

Pat, I agree with you to an extent on Jose. He wrestled really well to begin the season but since maybe January he has mostly been down. Seems like the prevailing opinion is he's struggling with weight management. Will be interesting to see how he does on Saturday if he gets a nice break after weighing in. He got an 8 pre-seed so he will get Gilman pretty early."



I really think that Rodriguez will grab a spot. At the very least, he'll get a WC on quality of wins. A bigger concern would be if we can gt 157 and 165 through, in some form.



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Discussion Topic: B10 Pre-seeds
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on February 27, 2017

I saw on twitter that Suriano was GTD for B10. I can't see him not wrestling at least a few matches until he qualifies.



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Discussion Topic: B10 Pre-seeds
Mark Cummings added to this discussion on February 27, 2017

Quote from Brian Nicola's post:

"
I really think that Rodriguez will grab a spot. At the very least, he'll get a WC on quality of wins. A bigger concern would be if we can gt 157 and 165 through, in some form."



I'm with you on 157 and 165. Need those weights qualified to even have a shot at a national title.



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Discussion Topic: B10 Pre-seeds
Sean Koran added to this discussion on February 27, 2017

While I of course want Jake and Cody to qualify, whether or not they ultimately do so will very likely have little to no impact on OSU's NCAA hopes. If the two of them qualify, a best case scenario seems to be four total wins between the two of them. That amounts to two to four points (bonus points seem totally out of the question outside of an injury default). And that is best case scenario. Jake Ryan was significantly better last year and won zero matches at NCAA.

To me, OSU's key to success is very simple: The Big Six need to kill it. Bo Jordan needs to win, not take fourth. Micah, Moore, and Myles need to finish top four, not top eight. And if Pletcher can nab a low AA that's gravy.

The point swings between, champ to runner-up, high AA to low AA, and low AA to nothing are just so much important than getting an extra weight or two qualified when in all likelihood those weights are going to net only a win or two at most. Again, if Burcher makes it NCAAs and wins a match in the consolation bracket, I would consider that a huge success of a year for him. That nets the team half a point. Meanwhile, if Micah places 4th instead of 6th, that alone is a 3.5 point gain.

This is why, contrary to what (I think) many on this board would choose, I would 100% advocate OSU focusing on signing even just one top recruit who looks like a surefire title contender versus several developmental guys who may become top 20 or even R12 types. If OSU could have wrestled this season with either a guy ranked 15th-ish at each of 125, 157, and 165, or an AA type at one of those weights with warm body at the other two, I take the later scenario every day of the week. The former makes OSU a better dual team, but winning duals doesn't win NCAA titles. AAs do.



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Discussion Topic: B10 Pre-seeds
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 27, 2017

Quote from Sean Koran's post:

"While I of course want Jake and Cody to qualify, whether or not they ultimately do so will very likely have little to no impact on OSU's NCAA hopes. If the two of them qualify, a best case scenario seems to be four total wins between the two of them. That amounts to two to four points (bonus points seem totally out of the question outside of an injury default). And that is best case scenario. Jake Ryan was significantly better last year and won zero matches at NCAA.

To me, OSU's key to success is very simple: The Big Six need to kill it. Bo Jordan needs to win, not take fourth. Micah, Moore, and Myles need to finish top four, not top eight. And if Pletcher can nab a low AA that's gravy.

The point swings between, champ to runner-up, high AA to low AA, and low AA to nothing are just so much important than getting an extra weight or two qualified when in all likelihood those weights are going to net only a win or two at most. Again, if Burcher makes it NCAAs and wins a match in the consolation bracket, I would consider that a huge success of a year for him. That nets the team half a point. Meanwhile, if Micah places 4th instead of 6th, that alone is a 3.5 point gain.

This is why, contrary to what (I think) many on this board would choose, I would 100% advocate OSU focusing on signing even just one top recruit who looks like a surefire title contender versus several developmental guys who may become top 20 or even R12 types. If OSU could have wrestled this season with either a guy ranked 15th-ish at each of 125, 157, and 165, or an AA type at one of those weights with warm body at the other two, I take the later scenario every day of the week. The former makes OSU a better dual team, but winning duals doesn't win NCAA titles. AAs do."



Sean--you're correct. And ultimately that's how Tom Ryan has gone about his business.



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Discussion Topic: B10 Pre-seeds
Mark Cummings added to this discussion on February 27, 2017

I think the 2-4 points those guys could provide may be the difference. That's me with my rose-colored glasses though. Plus it'd be awesome to qualify everybody. Has that ever happened for the Bucks?



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Discussion Topic: B10 Pre-seeds
Brian Nicola added to this discussion on February 27, 2017

Quote from Mark Cummings's post:
" Plus it'd be awesome to qualify everybody. Has that ever happened for the Bucks?"


I think it happened around 2003? Let me take a no-Google crack at it:

125- Jesse Leng NQ
133- Jeff Ratliff NQ
141- Robert Sessley AA
149- Keaton Anderson NQ
157- Josh Janssen NQ
165- Johnny Clark NQ
174- Jeff(?) Hieber NQ
184- Antonio Talamantes NQ
197- Nick Preston AA
285- Tommy Rowlands AA



Last edited by Brian Nicola on February 27, 2017; edited 4 times in total

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Discussion Topic: B10 Pre-seeds
Matt Mace added to this discussion on February 28, 2017

Who can tell me why some weights have 8 (or 7) seeds and some have all 14 seeded?
For the weights that only have the top 8 seeded, are the remaining places selected randomly? Could a 1 seed possibly have a 1st round match?
Illinois' freshman at 125 is potentially a dangerous unseeded 1st round matchup.



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Discussion Topic: B10 Pre-seeds
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on February 28, 2017

Quote from Matt Mace's post:

"Who can tell me why some weights have 8 (or 7) seeds and some have all 14 seeded?
For the weights that only have the top 8 seeded, are the remaining places selected randomly? Could a 1 seed possibly have a 1st round match?
Illinois' freshman at 125 is potentially a dangerous unseeded 1st round matchup."



My understanding is that weights that only have 8 seeded then the rest are random draws. So yes a #1 seed could get a match. Weights that have 14 seeded then the #1 and #2 get byes first round.

If Suriano doesn't wrestle then Jose moves from #8 seed and qtr with Gillman to a #7 seed and Lambert in the qtr.



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Discussion Topic: B10 Pre-seeds
Sean Koran added to this discussion on February 28, 2017

They seed to 14 when the weight class has more than 8 auto spots to NCAAs. 33 41 57 74 and 84 all have 9 auto qualifiers.



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Discussion Topic: B10 Pre-seeds
Matt Mace added to this discussion on February 28, 2017

Quote from James Kessen's post:

"
If Suriano doesn't wrestle then Jose moves from #8 seed and qtr with Gillman to a #7 seed and Lambert in the qtr."


I think Suriano will weigh in and injury default his first match if he doesn't wrestle, so the seeding would not shuffle.

Looking closely at the brackets...if Jose loses his 1st match he gets a first round bye in the wrestle backs and then would get the loser of Suriano's first match. Which Suriano could default. So Jose automatically wrestles for 7th place! He could do no worse than 8th and qualifies for NCAAs. If he wins his 1st match and loses to Gilman, he gets the loser of Oliver's first match. If he wins that, he qualifies, if he loses, he has to wrestle for 9th.



Last edited by Matt Mace on February 28, 2017; edited 1 time in total

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