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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on May 4, 2017
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according to posters on yappi J-Rod is transferring out. Anyone close to the program heard this?
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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on May 4, 2017
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Quote from James Kessen's post:
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"according to posters on yappi J-Rod is transferring out. Anyone close to the program heard this?"
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So IF true, is this a - NaTo is going 125 ...
OR
J-Rod can't make 125 any longer and can't crack varsity at 133 (behind either NaTo or Pletcher).
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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on May 4, 2017
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Quote from Brady Hiatt's post:
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"
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Quote from James Kessen's post:
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"according to posters on yappi J-Rod is transferring out. Anyone close to the program heard this?"
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So IF true, is this a - NaTo is going 125 ...
OR
J-Rod can't make 125 any longer and can't crack varsity at 133 (behind either NaTo or Pletcher)."
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Or even something else!? Originally from NY; perhaps parent(s) are getting transferred back for a job, he attends Hofstra or Buffalo to be closer. (One things for certain, in that scenario, he wouldn't be transferring to Syracuse. :sadface: #PrayersFromPataskala)
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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on May 4, 2017
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Quote from Mark Niemann's post:
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"Or even something else!? Originally from NY; perhaps parent(s) are getting transferred back for a job, he attends Hofstra or Buffalo to be closer."
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Quit muddying the waters with other real possibilities.
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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Joe Kinzel added to this discussion on May 4, 2017
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If JRod is out at Ohio State, and it appears the rumors are true, about the only thing clear is that he is either done wrestling or he didn't believe he was going to crack the starting line up. Whether that is because he doesn't want to cut anymore or can't beat out NaTo or Pletcher at 133 doesn't matter.
The plot thickens...
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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on May 4, 2017
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Willie just tweeted that JRod is transferring from Ohio State.
I wish him the best. And I'm sure JRod will do just fine wherever he lands.
Brady: tee-hee
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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Rick Wasmer added to this discussion on May 4, 2017
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So if Nate stays at 33, who is the likely 125 starter?
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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Brian Nicola added to this discussion on May 4, 2017
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OK, this will be a bit long. Apologies.
I wasn't really a Buckeye wrestling fan until I graduated college in 1995. In college, I was a Dayton Wrestling fan, although we weren't very good, but I was kind of mandated;)
Prior to that, I was an Iowa Hawkeye wrestling fan. In all reality, I was actually a Dan Gable fan. I devoured anything I could get about him (and still do), and though as I've gotten older I realize he was as flawed as anyone (ego, single-mindedness, etc), he really was unique and a true legend. One thing I loved about Gable was how he tweaked the line-up to make the team the best it could possibly be.
One of my favorite examples (and Rodriguez gives me copious amounts of crap for this) was the dropping of Troy Steiner to 134 to shoe-horn in Lincoln MacIlvravy late in 1993. Steiner had WON IT AT 142 in 1992. They had plenty of pop, but that made them great, instead of merely good. (Side note: our guy Rex Holman beat Joel Sharret from Iowa to get his NCAA title that very year.)
It's in 1997, moving Mike Uker up two weights from his 150 AA to a 167 AA again. It's doing the same with Jeff McGinnis in 1998 (he won at 126, then two years later at 142).
So, I'm not trying to dangle on Gable's nuts here, but Tom Ryan was lving and wrestling at Iowa while Gable was working his magic. Although TR is a kinder, gentler version, he has that same drive and "best team out there" approach as DG. And though he's unlikely to replicate kind of streak Gable developed for the Hawks, he's pretty damn good...and he recognizes a pretty good model.
For that reason, and for the fact that NAte Tomasello is a competitive little a ss kicker of the nth degree, I think NaTo is absolutely back at 125 for the 2018 NCAA tournament. And, I think he'll like it;that's how much faith I have in both those guys as competitors: he'll be there and he'll know why he's there....to give the Bucks the best possible chance to beat PSU.
It's not a stretch, although everything would have to go right. However, wouldn't you want to put yourself in the best possible position to do so if given the opportunity?
MAX OUTS
125- Tomasello (1), Suriano (1)
133- Pletcher (3/4), PSU?
141- Hayes (4-6), Cortez (6-8)
149- Micah (2/3), Rutherford (1)
157- Ryan, Burcher, Racer (R12), Nolf (1)
165- Campbell (6-8), Joseph (1)
174- Jordan (1), Hall (1)
184- Martin (1-3), Nickal (1)
197- Moore (1), McCutcheon (5-8)
285- Snyder (1), Nevills (2)
125, 174 and 184 are important. But it's not a stretch.
tl:dr Tomasello will go 125 and like it because Dan Gable.
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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Roe Fox added to this discussion on May 5, 2017
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I believe the Buckeyes would score more team points with Nate at 125. Further, he has the chance at 125 to stop one of PSUs big guns...and I don't want to see him at 125. That cut is brutal.
The weight class divisions have been discussed before but to me they make no sense. Cutting 8 pounds from 133 to 125 is far harder than 141 to 133, which is harder than 149 to 141, Etc.....the percentage of already LEAN weight he would be asked to cut is very high.
He is a tough man. He works incredibly hard. For him to complain about not enjoying last year probably shows the level of frustration (and pain) he suffered last year.
Further, if it is a team sport, then instead of asking him to step up for the team --again -- find a 125 willing to compete. Nate will do more than his share if he can win 133.
On another note, I saw a debate about Bo and Myles swapping spots. I don't think it happens because Myles looks a full 184 but style-wise I like the potential Buckeye-PSU matchups: Myles-Hall, Bo-Nickal.
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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Matt Mace added to this discussion on May 5, 2017
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Good analysis Brian, and I agree with you. I think Nate goes 125 next year because he wants to.
I don't think PSU does as well as you show though. I think IMar takes back what is his, and I think Coon, Tanner Hall and Kasper can all beat Nevills.
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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Brian Nicola added to this discussion on May 5, 2017
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Quote from Roe Fox's post:
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"I believe the Buckeyes would score more team points with Nate at 125. Further, he has the chance at 125 to stop one of PSUs big guns...and I don't want to see him at 125. That cut is brutal.
The weight class divisions have been discussed before but to me they make no sense. Cutting 8 pounds from 133 to 125 is far harder than 141 to 133, which is harder than 149 to 141, Etc.....the percentage of already LEAN weight he would be asked to cut is very high.
He is a tough man. He works incredibly hard. For him to complain about not enjoying last year probably shows the level of frustration (and pain) he suffered last year.
Further, if it is a team sport, then instead of asking him to step up for the team --again -- find a 125 willing to compete. Nate will do more than his share if he can win 133.
On another note, I saw a debate about Bo and Myles swapping spots. I don't think it happens because Myles looks a full 184 but style-wise I like the potential Buckeye-PSU matchups: Myles-Hall, Bo-Nickal."
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I do hear you. However, I also think that given the new freestyle weigh-in rules for next year (2 day tournaments with day -of weigh-ins on both days), it behooves Tomasello to change his body type to make 125, if only for his freestyle aspirations. There's no one on here that can honestly say he can't get by with less muscle. He's huge.
I'm not hating on him. My goodness, we're talking about one of Ohio State's all-time greats here, as he's practically a lock for a 4x AA. Ultimately, whatever he and Coach Ryan decide, we're all going to be geeked as heck next year.
Think about how spoiled we are now. We are arguing if a 3x AA and national champ should drop down to make room for another guy who has AA (and eventual champ) potential. A decade ago we would have passed out with excitement over this, now it's like, "hey, it's Friday...".
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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on May 5, 2017
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Quote from Brian Nicola's post:
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"One of my favorite examples (and Rodriguez gives me copious amounts of crap for this) was the dropping of Troy Steiner to 134 to shoe-horn in Lincoln MacIlvravy late in 1993. Steiner had WON IT AT 142 in 1992. They had plenty of pop, but that made them great, instead of merely good. (Side note: our guy Rex Holman beat Joel Sharret from Iowa to get his NCAA title that very year.)
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Brian and I have had this conversation before...
I often talk about how it always surprises me how two people who are educated about the sport can see the same thing completely differently. The above mentioned tale of Coach Gable's brilliance lacks two crucial poinst...Number one, defending NCAA champion, Troy Steiner, was a dominant 134-pounder throughout the year. He entered the tourney undefeated and the #1 seed. He LOST in the semi-finals to true freshman Kary Colat (who he had beaten at least twice that season). Number two, the Hawkeyes won the NCAA Tournament by 36.25 points that year. They didn't need both McIlravy and Steiner in the line-up to win. Gable's drive to dominate cost a senior, returning NCAA champion a chance to end his career with another title. What Brian sees as an example of Gable's greatness, I see as one of his worst moments as a coach.
Ohio State will likely be the NCAA runner-up next season, no weight class shifting will change that. It's a GREAT TEAM. There's just a better team out there next year. Don't make the same mistake Coach Gable made and cost your star senior his title just to score more points that won't matter.
He's told you (fans) through the press what the drop to 125 did to him both physically and mentally. I don't understand how you can just ignore HIS WORDS and substitute your feelings on how he "should" feel about it. If tOSU forfeits 125, they're still NCAA runner-ups. I'd rather see them forfeit 125 all season than drop Tomesello.
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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on May 5, 2017
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"Gable's drive to dominate cost a senior, returning NCAA champion a chance to end his career with another title."
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Steiner still had a chance to win, he just got beat. No guarantee he wins the weight Lincoln did (though he was clear odds on favorite - but he at the lower weight also).
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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on May 5, 2017
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"
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Quote from Brian Nicola's post:
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"One of my favorite examples (and Rodriguez gives me copious amounts of crap for this) was the dropping of Troy Steiner to 134 to shoe-horn in Lincoln MacIlvravy late in 1993. Steiner had WON IT AT 142 in 1992. They had plenty of pop, but that made them great, instead of merely good. (Side note: our guy Rex Holman beat Joel Sharret from Iowa to get his NCAA title that very year.)
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Brian and I have had this conversation before...
I often talk about how it always surprises me how two people who are educated about the sport can see the same thing completely differently. The above mentioned tale of Coach Gable's brilliance lacks two crucial poinst...Number one, defending NCAA champion, Troy Steiner, was a dominant 134-pounder throughout the year. He entered the tourney undefeated and the #1 seed. He LOST in the semi-finals to true freshman Kary Colat (who he had beaten at least twice that season). Number two, the Hawkeyes won the NCAA Tournament by 36.25 points that year. They didn't need both McIlravy and Steiner in the line-up to win. Gable's drive to dominate cost a senior, returning NCAA champion a chance to end his career with another title. What Brian sees as an example of Gable's greatness, I see as one of his worst moments as a coach.
Ohio State will likely be the NCAA runner-up next season, no weight class shifting will change that. It's a GREAT TEAM. There's just a better team out there next year. Don't make the same mistake Coach Gable made and cost your star senior his title just to score more points that won't matter.
He's told you (fans) through the press what the drop to 125 did to him both physically and mentally. I don't understand how you can just ignore HIS WORDS and substitute your feelings on how he "should" feel about it. If tOSU forfeits 125, they're still NCAA runner-ups. I'd rather see them forfeit 125 all season than drop Tomesello."
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Not sure I understand since you said Steiner dominated 134 class all year and came in as #1 seed and was given the same opportunity to win that weight as he would have at 142. If the weight cut effected his wrestling and he came in as the #5 seed and placed 5th because he couldn't handle the cut then I would agree with your argument. However you said he was dominate and #1 seed and beat Kolat twice already.
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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Matt Mace added to this discussion on May 5, 2017
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Michael, just for argument sake let's suppose the following:
If Nate moves to 125, then tOSU wins NCAAs
If Nate stays at 133, then tOSU gets 2nd at NCAAs.
This is the hypothetical I'm asking you to consider. I don't want to argue the strengths of the hypothetical right this minute.
If you were Nate, would you attempt the cut?
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