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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on May 5, 2017
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If I were Nate, I'd go 133. Win or lose at a class you're comfortable. College wrestling has it's head up it's butt when it comes to weight control and the wrestlers suffer. There's no need for it to be so hard to make it through a season at the same time you're working on academics, dealing with injuries and training like a madman.
Make scratch weight once. Then, give wrestlers a five pound allowance. Stop forcing them to kill themselves all season.
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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Brandon Olinger added to this discussion on May 5, 2017
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"He's told you (fans) through the press what the drop to 125 did to him both physically and mentally. I don't understand how you can just ignore HIS WORDS and substitute your feelings on how he "should" feel about it. If tOSU forfeits 125, they're still NCAA runner-ups. I'd rather see them forfeit 125 all season than drop Tomesello."
This quote above.
I think people tend to forget this. And also tend to forget how he looked his sophomore year at 125, especially as the season progressed.
My gut tells me we will see Tomasello at 125. There is literally no one else to compete at 125 except undersized and inexperienced freshmen. If Ohio State is going to make a run for a title, this is the year to do it being that it is the senior year of Tomasello, Snyder, and Bo. Tom Ryan has shown that if he feels that there is even a slight possibility of winning an NCAA title, he will make moves to make it happen (pulling MyMar and Snyder out of Red/Olympic Shirts, pulling Pletcher from Redshirt, etc.)
With that said, unless they have a very precise plan for Tomasello to go back to 125 with Tomasello being completely committed to the idea, I also have a gut feeling that it's not the right thing to do.
The great thing is my gut feelings mean absolutely squat to anyone other than myself. And my gut feelings are wrong....rather often. :)
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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Matt Mace added to this discussion on May 5, 2017
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"If I were Nate, I'd go 133. Win or lose at a class you're comfortable. College wrestling has it's head up it's butt when it comes to weight control and the wrestlers suffer. There's no need for it to be so hard to make it through a season at the same time you're working on academics, dealing with injuries and training like a madman.
Make scratch weight once. Then, give wrestlers a five pound allowance. Stop forcing them to kill themselves all season."
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I can't argue with your decision to wrestle at a weight that is comfortable. No question it reduces mental and physical fatigue and stress. The stress of making a big cut is brutal, it is constantly on your mind and isn't healthy. I think Nate is a very health conscious person who lives a clean life from what I've heard, but sometimes a weight cut can be unhealthy. If not physically, then mentally. So if the weight cut cannot be done without constant suffering than I would not make it either. If I could shrink my body and make that cut without it dominating my life (studying, workouts, mental health), then I would make the sacrifice.
Hank,I don't like your idea of making scratch weight and then a 5 lb allowance. i don't think it would discourage cutting weight, in fact I think it would create more dangerous weight cuts, if only one time. I'd rather see weigh ins right before stepping on the mat. I think that would discourage any cut that affects performance.
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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on May 5, 2017
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James Kessen...I get what you're saying. If he dominated all season, he should've dominated NCAAs. I viewed (at the time, and to this day) Steiner's season senior season a lot like Tomesello's sophomore year. I think most would agree that by the end of the year the weight was effecting his performance, and I think Tomesello has said as much without making excuses. I assume that everyone who discusses on this site has wrestled. I know I was a different wrestler at my best weight. Sometimes it was my lowest weight, sometimes it wasn't, but there was a clear difference. 133 is Tomesello's best weight.
142 was Steiner's best weight. It was the weight that he won his title. It was the weight gave him the best chance to repeat as champion. He GREATLY increased his chances of losing by cutting eight pounds of that body...and he did it, (and here's the rub) for no benefit for the team. They would have finished in the exact same place had MacIlvravy stayed in red-shirt and Steiner would have been allowed to defend his 142-pound title.
Think about this, which returning NCAA champion do you think could move DOWN and win a title? I think most, if not all would fail.
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Quote from Matt Mace's post:
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"Michael, just for argument sake let's suppose the following:
If Nate moves to 125, then tOSU wins NCAAs
If Nate stays at 133, then tOSU gets 2nd at NCAAs.
This is the hypothetical I'm asking you to consider. I don't want to argue the strengths of the hypothetical right this minute.
If you were Nate, would you attempt the cut?"
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If I were Tomesello, in that limited scope, I honestly think I would say to my coach and my teammates, "I've given you four years of my life. I bleed scarlet and grey. I've been your captain. I've had more wins than anyone during my time here. I've given you all I have. I'm a 133-pounder".
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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Brandon Olinger added to this discussion on May 5, 2017
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"James Kessen...I get what you're saying. If he dominated all season, he should've dominated NCAAs. I viewed (at the time, and to this day) Steiner's season senior season a lot like Tomesello's sophomore year. I think most would agree that by the end of the year the weight was effecting his performance, and I think Tomesello has said as much without making excuses. I assume that everyone who discusses on this site has wrestled. I know I was a different wrestler at my best weight. Sometimes it was my lowest weight, sometimes it wasn't, but there was a clear difference. 133 is Tomesello's best weight.
142 was Steiner's best weight. It was the weight that he won his title. It was the weight gave him the best chance to repeat as champion. He GREATLY increased his chances of losing by cutting eight pounds of that body...and he did it, (and here's the rub) for no benefit for the team. They would have finished in the exact same place had MacIlvravy stayed in red-shirt and Steiner would have been allowed to defend his 142-pound title.
Think about this, which returning NCAA champion do you think could move DOWN and win a title? I think most, if not all would fail.
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Quote from Matt Mace's post:
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"Michael, just for argument sake let's suppose the following:
If Nate moves to 125, then tOSU wins NCAAs
If Nate stays at 133, then tOSU gets 2nd at NCAAs.
This is the hypothetical I'm asking you to consider. I don't want to argue the strengths of the hypothetical right this minute.
If you were Nate, would you attempt the cut?"
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If I were Tomesello, in that limited scope, I honestly think I would say to my coach and my teammates, "I've given you four years of my life. I bleed scarlet and grey. I've been your captain. I've had more wins than anyone during my time here. I've given you all I have. I'm a 133-pounder"."
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And no could be mad at him for saying that.
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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on May 5, 2017
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Quote from Brandon Olinger's post:
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"And no could be mad at him for saying that."
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I'm not sure I agree with you on that one. In the limited scope of the question that was posed, it seems a lot of Ohio State fans think a team championship is worth whatever Nathan Tomesello might have to go through to get it.
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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Alex Creech added to this discussion on May 5, 2017
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"
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Quote from Brandon Olinger's post:
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"And no could be mad at him for saying that."
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I'm not sure I agree with you on that one. In the limited scope of the question that was posed, it seems a lot of Ohio State fans think a team championship is worth whatever Nathan Tomesello might have to go through to get it."
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That's an unfair generalization, and inaccurate as well.
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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on May 5, 2017
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I think there are fans who would not like the answer - certainly! However, there really are two people, and quite honestly one person, that the answer comes from that matters. And that is Tom Ryan's and more to the point, Nathan Tomasello's answer. The rest is sound and fury signifying nothing.
If I've learned anything at all it is to trust tNDG in choices like this.
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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on May 5, 2017
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"If I were Nate, I'd go 133. Win or lose at a class you're comfortable."
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Agree, because weight cutting SUCKS -- unless he is trying to get his body somewhat smaller because of new Int'l weigh-in rules.
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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Alex Creech added to this discussion on May 5, 2017
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"133 is Tomesello's best weight.
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If 133 is his best weight, then why did he wrestle 126 at the US Open instead of 134?
That said, I think Nate should be able to wrestle whatever weight he wants.
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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on May 5, 2017
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Can he wrestle 133 all season then make the drop to 125 at the end (per the # of pounds per week allowed) so he could compete at 125 for B1G's and NCAA's only?
I'm not up on NCAA weight rules -- but if possible, this would seem to line-up better with what he will be facing with Int'l competition weigh-ins.
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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Joe Kinzel added to this discussion on May 5, 2017
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Now that JRod going 125 again isn't even an option the Bucks are going to be hurting unless NaTo drops.
I have to believe he is at least seriously considering it.
I also think the best question of this thread was just asked; why did he just drop to wrestle 125.5 this past weekend?
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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on May 5, 2017
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Quote from Joe Kinzel's post:
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"I also think the best question of this thread was just asked; why did he just drop to wrestle 125.5 this past weekend?"
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There is a HUGE difference in dropping a couple times a year and doing it every week from Nov through March.
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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Joe Kinzel added to this discussion on May 5, 2017
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Quote from Brady Hiatt's post:
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"
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Quote from Joe Kinzel's post:
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"I also think the best question of this thread was just asked; why did he just drop to wrestle 125.5 this past weekend?"
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There is a HUGE difference in dropping a couple times a year and doing it every week from Nov through March."
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I understand that but it still doesn't answer the question.
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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on May 5, 2017
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Even with the new weigh-in times, the culture of freestyle weight cutting has always been different. The rules are different. Unless they've changed, you can lose water weight right up to stepping on the scale. There's no certifying. There's not a long season to make weight loss a rind. These things matter.
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Quote from Alex Creech's post:
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"That's an unfair generalization, and inaccurate as well."
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I said "a lot of Ohio State fans", not all or even most. And remember the premise of the question, tOSU would be GUARANTEED at team title if Tomesello cut to 125. I stand by my assertion that a lot of Ohio State fans would make that trade. And I don't think that makes them bad peaple or bad fans. I think many fans of many teams would make the same trade. But like I always say, I'm wrong a lot. Maybe this is one of those times?
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