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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Matt Mace added to this discussion on April 27, 2017

I think Option C scores the most team points.
I also think it is Nate's decision, but after not winning a title at 133, a move to 125 shouldn't just be thrown away. He will wrestle 56kg this weekend and he will find out how bad that cut sucks and if he can manage it again next season.



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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on April 27, 2017

If I may, I had an honest question about the discussion regarding Tomesello's weight class. This thread is as good as any to bring it up.

Is any of the "Tomasello to 125" stuff coming from anyone close to the program? I just don't see why he would drop? Making the cut for World Team is irrelevant. Logan Stieber is wrestling ten pounds down from his college weight. Was he wrong to be up at 141 his Junior and senior seasons?

I view this a lot like pulling Martin's and Snyder's red-shirts last year. And I know that's a horse that's been beaten to death (mostly by me)...but hear me out. The only reason to force Tomesello down is to get Pletcher in so you can have Tomesello, Pletcher, Hayes and Jordan in the front end...a formidable line-up, to be sure. That scores the most points, and that's the only way you beat Penn State. So, long story short, Tomesello's drop is to beat Penn State.

But here's the rub...No one's beating Penn State next year. So, you'd basically make your senior, four year captain, 3X AA, National Champion, Academic AA, strip eight pounds off a body that he has meticulously built over the years just to lose to Penn State by a little less? I don't get it. If anyone has earned the right to wrestle at his best weight, it's Tomesello. He's a 133-pounder, and a damn good one. Just my opinion, but I'm wrong a lot.



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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on April 27, 2017

Mike: PSU is the overwhelming favorite but there are a lot of reasons why they might not win.

So, if you're Ohio State, aren't you going to try to figure out how to beat them?

FWIW--I don't disagree with your contention that Nate should be allowed to wrestle wherever he feels comfortable. I'm just saying that no one should assume PSU can't be defeated.



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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Joe Kinzel added to this discussion on April 27, 2017

I am not close to the program but I do have an opinion on Nate moving down to 125.

First, I don't concede the 2018 title and hand it over to Penn State. Are they the favorites? Obviously, but a lot can happen between now and then.

Nate did not appear to be a big 133 last season. He doesn't have the height that many of the other guys in the weight class do. With that being said, I think he is the favorite to win the weight class next year regardless.

His move to 125 would allow Pletcher into the line up at his ideal weight. I think that gives the Bucks the best chance at scoring optimum points next year.

There are three weight classes where we have guys favored to win titles next season. 133, 197, and 285.
I think BoJo will be right in the mix to win it at 174.
That could be FOUR National Champions for us next season!
Should Nate move to 125 that means we have AA's at: 133, 141, 149, and 184.

Racer is an unknown commodity but will likely score points at 157 (providing he is the starter) an he becoming an AA is not out of the question. Campbell at 165 is definitely a threat to AA.

Next season, Ohio State could/will field the best team in the history of the program.



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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Matt Mace added to this discussion on April 27, 2017

Quote from Joe Kinzel's post:

"
Next season, Ohio State could/will field the best team in the history of the program."



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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on April 27, 2017

I totally agree that tOSU will field its best team in program history next season...regardless of what weight Tomesello goes. But I also think that likely won't matter in terms of an NCAA Tournament title. I don't think Ohio State should "concede" the title to Penn State. I just don't think they should do anything as radical as making Tomesello drop. The "he doesn't look like a big 133 to me" argument doesn't hold water with me. The cut his sophomore year was hard enough that he moved up. He's told you by his actions where he wants to be.



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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Joe Kinzel added to this discussion on April 27, 2017

Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:

"I totally agree that tOSU will field its best team in program history next season...regardless of what weight Tomesello goes. But I also think that likely won't matter in terms of an NCAA Tournament title. I don't think Ohio State should "concede" the title to Penn State. I just don't think they should do anything as radical as making Tomesello drop. The "he doesn't look like a big 133 to me" argument doesn't hold water with me. The cut his sophomore year was hard enough that he moved up. He's told you by his actions where he wants to be."



My question is how easily can Nate make 25? Does TR "force" NaTo to drop? No. I think it should be his decision but another thought is this; if Nate does go 125 does he prevent Penn State from having another national champion? Suriano will beat JRod and could win the title at 125 but I'll take Nate head-to-head over him.

Penn State gets Suriano back at 125 but I do not believe Joseph or Hall repeat. The Bucks can win it in Cleveland next year.



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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on April 27, 2017

I get that, and I can see how hope springs eternal. I just don't see how it's not obvious that the cut is too much for Tomesello. If it wasn't, why did he go 133 last season? Tomesello at 125 last year would have put Pletcher at 133, Hayes at 141 and Jordan at 149 (before the Hayes injury). It's the same situation. Why should Coach Ryan handle it differently? Am I making any sense?



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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Justin Hayes added to this discussion on April 28, 2017

I'm with M-Rod here. And I'm right alot.

The biggest problem I foresee:

Despite being listed in all 3 aforementioned line-ups, 141 is my current "walking around" weight.

But regardless of what weight I go, I don't think there is a D1 wrestler -other than some outlier glutton for punishment type walk on- that can't pin me.

Clearly, this doesn't help the team race come March.



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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on April 28, 2017

Justin: you just keep your nose to the grindstone, focusing on the process, and getting better everyday, and great things are going to happen. We believe in you!

NATO to 125 is a personal choice. I assume there's a point to be made that coaches have say, but he'll be a senior who has done everything right up to this point. I think the coaches' job is to put the team in a position to be successful. They lay out the options to all involved, let the choices be made and then match forward.

I don't think any of us know NATO's feelings on this. Maybe after tNDG gives me a call I will have a better understanding. But until then, meh. We're all a bunch of keyboard warriors. And...there's a looooong time to go before we even get to December!

Go Buckeyes!



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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
John Drumm added to this discussion on April 28, 2017

Nate can bench press a VW. He is "big" enough to challenge for the title in the 125-141 range weight classes.



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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on April 28, 2017

Quote from Mark Niemann's post:

"Justin: you just keep your nose to the grindstone, focusing on the process, and getting better everyday, and great things are going to happen. We believe in you!

NATO to 125 is a personal choice. I assume there's a point to be made that coaches have say, but he'll be a senior who has done everything right up to this point. I think the coaches' job is to put the team in a position to be successful. They lay out the options to all involved, let the choices be made and then match forward.

I don't think any of us know NATO's feelings on this. Maybe after tNDG gives me a call I will have a better understanding. But until then, meh. We're all a bunch of keyboard warriors. And...there's a looooong time to go before we even get to December!

Go Buckeyes!"



The sources I have heard from say Nate does not want to make the cut but the team would prefer him to.



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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Mark Cummings added to this discussion on April 28, 2017

I remember an article either on 11W or in the Dispatch where Nate was profiled late last season. He mentioned that the weight cutting had become such a grind that it caused him to lose some love for the sport and his love was rekindled when the weight cut was less onerous. I hope he stays at 133 and wins a title there even if it means the Bucks finish second as a team again.



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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Jeff Streu added to this discussion on April 28, 2017

Quote from Mark Cummings's post:

"I remember an article either on 11W or in the Dispatch where Nate was profiled late last season. He mentioned that the weight cutting had become such a grind that it caused him to lose some love for the sport and his love was rekindled when the weight cut was less onerous. I hope he stays at 133 and wins a title there even if it means the Bucks finish second as a team again."



Couldn't agree more. We should all want Nate to enjoy the sport, because if he does he's more likely to have longevity in it and compete internationally.

One thing I noticed is that Pletcher wrestled 63 kg/138 lb for Juniors this weekend. Being that weigh-ins were the night before, Pletcher should have been able to make 60 kg/132 lb if he plans on wrestling 133 next season. Seems to me that he may be growing in to 141, meaning Nate doesn't need to drop.



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Discussion Topic: 2017-18 Bucks
Joe Kinzel added to this discussion on April 28, 2017

I agree 100% with all of you guys who think Nate should wrestle where he wants to. The kid has been an incredible ambassador for Ohio State Wrestling and I believe can win it at 133.

I guess my point is I believe the Bucks can win the team title next year. I also believe that is unlikely to happen if Nate wrestles 133.

I'm not taking anything away from Penn State. They deserve every single accolade they receive. Cael is a class act and the team is amazing. However, no way they hit every bonus point again like they did this past season. Joseph and Hall do not repeat!

Go Bucks!!!



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