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Discussion Topic: Pat Downey to Kent State?
Brian Grimm added to this discussion on July 13, 2017

Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:

"Brian: I hope you're right but their roster is not in good shape at the moment. Barring an influx of transfers, Kent looks to be a bottom end MAC team for the next few years."



The 2016/2017 season certainly didn’t instill confidence moving forward. Before we bury KSU for the next few years, however, other than the absence of a Kilgore or Miller caliber wrestler, is this year’s roster really all that different from any of the past 10 years? I only recall one time when KSU was recognized as having a top 25 recruiting class. Mitcheff and Bedelyon, despite being very good in high school, certainly didn’t jump out at a lot of people. Did anyone ever imagine that Porter or DePalma would AA? To your point, KSU has always been about coaching up talent. Other than the absence of a Miller/Kilgore caliber wrestler, I don’t think that this year’s roster looks much different from any other KSU roster of the past 10 years. Tutolo’s high school credentials aren’t dissimilar from the others, but he’s been at the wrong weight class or injured so far. Maybe he will be the next AA and team anchor?

The issue is: Will KSU’s strategy of coaching up wrestlers be enough? It has worked in the past, but when I look around the MAC, I see the likes of Buffalo, Eastern Michigan, etc. appearing to have upped their game. Of course, Missouri is top dog and CMU has always been problematic for KSU. Catching Missouri (or even CMU) with the current type of roster will never happen. Can KSU coach up its talent to stay ahead of most of the other MAC programs? One season isn’t a sufficient sample group to answer the question. Also, don’t discount that 2016/2017 followed the graduation of 5/6 instrumental seniors and was only 2 years removed from a significant coaching change. Time will tell. I’m guardedly optimistic that KSU will not remain at the bottom of the MAC for the next 3 years.

“Now, he's inviting a young man who has made major issues at two other schools to join his squad?” Did you read this somewhere or are you assuming it happened based on Downey’s comment? I couldn’t find it when I searched. Please share a link. Even if KSU did talk to him, isn’t it premature to conclude that he was invited to join the KSU squad? I think you are ahead of yourself on this. Although it may come to pass, it would be beneficial to know all the facts before the mob takes it as fact and starts commenting about KSU being desperate because the past 3 seasons have been flat out bad. Oooops. Too late. lol



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Discussion Topic: Pat Downey to Kent State?
Brian Grimm added to this discussion on July 13, 2017

Quote from Ben Golden's post:

"

Quote from Brian Grimm's post:

"

Quote from Ben Golden's post:

"Perhaps it's a bit of desperation? Kent has been flat out bad for the last few years."



????
KSU had a bad year last year, but the season before was their best one since the mid-80s. Kent brought in a transfer from Boise State at 125 to bolster that weight class, but they have options at 197. There are issues but desperation is a tad harsh."



Whatever measure you're using to say that, throw it out. What is the measure? Dual meet record? If so, they've probably lowered their competition level. They've been bad for a few years.

Stating that two seasons ago was better than the kilgore/bedelyon/mitcheff/porter years suggests that your judgement may be impaired on this matter."



Thank you, but you can go first. Please share how you concluded that “Kent has been flat out bad for the last few years.”
Please feel free to identify whatever measure you’re using to say that, throw it out. What is the measure? Dual meet record?
I’ll refrain from suggesting your judgment may be impaired on the matter until after you’ve had the opportunity to make your case that “they've been bad for a few years.”
I will point out, however, that invoking the kilgore/bedelyon/mitcheff/porter years is disingenuous given that they span approximately 8 seasons versus the 1 season I mentioned. But I digress…



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Discussion Topic: Pat Downey to Kent State?
Brandon Olinger added to this discussion on July 13, 2017

I wouldn't say that KSU has been great the last 6 years but they have been respectable, with the exception of 2016-2017 season. Last year was exceptionally bad, but programs have those kind of years. Removing last season out of the equation, they averaged 5.4 NQ's from 2012-2016

Just some basic stats over the last 6 years (I think these are accurate):

2017:
• 2 NCAA NQ’s
• 0 AA’s

2016:
• 5 NCAA NQ’s
• 2 AA’s
• 4th place team finish at MAC w/o Ian Miller
• 15th in final coaches poll

2015
• 5 NCAA NQ’s
• 1 AA
• 4th place team finish at MAC

2014:
• 4 NCAA NQ’s
• 1 AA
• 6th place team finish at MAC

2013:
• 6 NCAA NQ’s
• 1 AA
• 4th place team finish at MAC

2012:
• 7 NCAA NQ’s
• 1 AA
• 2nd place team finish at MAC
• 13th ranking in coaches poll



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Discussion Topic: Pat Downey to Kent State?
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on July 13, 2017

Brian: based on the stats provided, I'd agree with you that last season was Kent's first really bad one. The issue moving forward however is that they really don't have the young talent coming in to quickly turn it around. Looking at their roster, I see potential in Tutolo and Sparkman. Some of their other guys have looked decent at times but faded as last season progressed. Obviously, it hurt when Harris and Beard--two fine prospects on paper--didn't last. And Jairod James is gone--another guy who showed flashes of greatness. But I do have to wonder if that isn't something the staff shouldn't have seen coming. A big part of recruiting is getting the right guys.

I just think that Kent's strategy is no longer working. You need some real talent mixed in with your projects and they don't have enough of it. Jim Andrassy turned it around once and moved this program forward for a long time. But at some point, a coach can get stale and a change is needed (personal experience speaking). I don't know if Kent has reached that point. But at a time when lots of D1 schools are moving forward and getting better (granted--you need real support from your AD to make this happen), Kent is heading in the opposite direction. Hopefully, they've hit bottom, the kids will show progress and we'll see them moving forward next season.



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Discussion Topic: Pat Downey to Kent State?
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on July 13, 2017

On a brighter note, KSU-Tuscarawas campus, has added wrestling to its sport activities. It's NCWA--organized club wrestling--but they've brought on an experienced coach and are providing more opportunities for kids to wrestle. Plus, the fact the school mentions it prominently on their website would seem to indicate a real interest in having a stable program.



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Discussion Topic: Pat Downey to Kent State?
Ben Golden added to this discussion on July 13, 2017

Thanks for that data Brandon. I stand by my comment that they've been bad for a few years, though less so than I originally thought. 2016 was a good year; I was off base with some of my word choices. However I would say 2012 was better. I'd be interested to see the numbers from 2010 and 2011, too.

I think Ian Miller masked how bad the team and recruiting has been because he was such a bright spot. Maybe that's unfair to say. The cupboard has not been replenishing. The future looks bleak.



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Discussion Topic: Pat Downey to Kent State?
Brandon Olinger added to this discussion on July 13, 2017

Quote from Ben Golden's post:

"Thanks for that data Brandon. I stand by my comment that they've been bad for a few years, though less so than I originally thought. 2016 was a good year; I was off base with some of my word choices. However I would say 2012 was better. I'd be interested to see the numbers from 2010 and 2011, too.

I think Ian Miller masked how bad the team and recruiting has been because he was such a bright spot. Maybe that's unfair to say. The cupboard has not been replenishing. The future looks bleak."



Ask and you shall receive...

2011:
• 6 NCAA NQ’s
• 2nd place team finish at MAC
• 1 AA (Kilgore – National Champ)
• 17th place team finish at NCAA’s
• 17th ranking in coaches poll

2010:
• 5 NCAA NQ’s
• 2nd place team finish at MAC
• 2 AA’s (Mitcheff & Kilgore)
• 16th ranking in coaches poll



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Discussion Topic: Pat Downey to Kent State?
Brandon Olinger added to this discussion on July 13, 2017

Interesting to note that KSU finished 2nd in the MAC in 2010, 2011, 2012 however have not finished better than 4th since then.

Now, Missouri entered the MAC in 2013 so that plays a bit into it. But that stat alone will show you that even though the statistics are relatively similar since 2010 (with the exception being 2017), there has definitely been a decline in talent and production at KSU.



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