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Discussion Topic: Three Questions
Jeff Reid added to this discussion on January 24, 2018

Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:

"Jeff: With all due respect, the tactics used now are different from those that worked in high school under John Storey. If you explode up without hand control, these D1 wrestlers will lift and return you hard. Also, the claw ride is much different to counter than an arm chop or ankle breakdown. If it were as simple as a hard standup, the Bucks--and everyone else--would do it.

That being said--PSU wrestlers seem to get out with little issue. There is no denying that certain teams are much better on bottom than Ohio State. The Bucks make their living off takedowns.

College Folkstyle rules--which give way too much of a reward for parallel riding and the escape--can work against this strategy on occasion."

Hank, agree with different times. However, it just doesnt appear that many on the Bucks even know how to standup. When your first move from bottom is to put your head down, you have a problem. I would just like to see some more explosion from the bottom. The Bucks are becoming notorious for not getting out from the bottom. I would love to see a stat which shows the teams that have the most full period rideouts against them.



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Discussion Topic: Three Questions
Rex Holman added to this discussion on January 24, 2018

https://youtu.be/H1cV8nOrnGk

Rule no. 1 You have to be able to escape when it matters.

Rule no. 2 It always matters

I've referenced this match before as it struck me at the time as a teachable moment.

If you go to the five minute mark. The match went to sudden death OT from referee position. It was the rule at the time.

Mena won the flip but hesitated on whether to choose top or bottom. There was a slight indecision if you were paying attention.

He didn't take bottom.

With all the preparation you do for a competition, a lot of times it comes down to one position in which one athlete is just a little better prepared than the other.

That is what you saw with Lee from top, he was just better prepared.

Objectively speaking, if you give up riding time in a match in which few takedowns are scored then you performed at a deficit.

I like to put the bar a bit higher and say 20-30 seconds as a general rule because that gives enough time to generate a position from which a progression of attacks off bottom can result in a reversal or an escape.



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Discussion Topic: Three Questions
Roe Fox added to this discussion on January 24, 2018

Quote from Jeff Reid's post:

"

Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:

"Jeff: With all due respect, the tactics used now are different from those that worked in high school under John Storey. If you explode up without hand control, these D1 wrestlers will lift and return you hard. Also, the claw ride is much different to counter than an arm chop or ankle breakdown. If it were as simple as a hard standup, the Bucks--and everyone else--would do it.

That being said--PSU wrestlers seem to get out with little issue. There is no denying that certain teams are much better on bottom than Ohio State. The Bucks make their living off takedowns.

College Folkstyle rules--which give way too much of a reward for parallel riding and the escape--can work against this strategy on occasion."

Hank, agree with different times. However, it just doesnt appear that many on the Bucks even know how to standup. When your first move from bottom is to put your head down, you have a problem. I would just like to see some more explosion from the bottom. The Bucks are becoming notorious for not getting out from the bottom. I would love to see a stat which shows the teams that have the most full period rideouts against them."



I watched that match again last night. Nate got up a couple of times. He is usually very good about getting out. He also just looked a little sluggish, which could be caused by the layoff or something else. He is usually much quicker with sit outs and hand control. That is not to excuse the loss. Lee beat him fair and square. But I left watching convinced Nate is the better wrestler.

He was the aggressor. He should have finished another couple of takedowns. Unless there is something still wrong physically I am confident he beats
Lee next time. — and gets out from bottom. He can’t give away that point because he almost always gets it. One match isn’t a trend.

I see the next time much like the match Logan had with Retherford after the loss.



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Discussion Topic: Three Questions
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on January 24, 2018

Quote from Roe Fox's post:

"I see the next time much like the match Logan had with Retherford after the loss."



Funny you mention that match up. I agree, but I don't think Stieber chose down against Retherford at Big Tens or NCAAs after the loss in the dual. I'm old and my memory isn't what it used to be. Am I wrong on that?



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Discussion Topic: Three Questions
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on January 24, 2018

Also a big difference wrestling after one hour weigh-in and wrestling eight hours after weighing-in when They most likely will meet in the semi’s or the finals of the tournament.



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Discussion Topic: Three Questions
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on January 24, 2018

And Mike I think you’re correct



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Discussion Topic: Three Questions
Rex Holman added to this discussion on January 24, 2018

Good call on the dual format. That makes a world of difference in recovery.



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Discussion Topic: Three Questions
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on January 24, 2018

Quote from Brady Hiatt's post:

"Also a big difference wrestling after one hour weigh-in and wrestling eight hours after weighing-in when They most likely will meet in the semi’s or the finals of the tournament."



Astute observation. We forget Nate is human. He wrestled 133 last year. He's down to 125 for good of the team. Tough cut and a hard seven minutes.



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