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Discussion Topic: Bucks vs. PSU
Chris Thomas added to this discussion on February 4, 2018

Although, the outcome might not be what the Buckeye faithful wanted this was good for wrestling. The dual was exciting and it came down to the last match. Penn State is an all time great team and they fought through the adversity of losing Nolf to beat us in a great dual.



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Discussion Topic: Bucks vs. PSU
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on February 4, 2018

This dual - and how some Bucks looked, eeeily remains nded me of watching teams enter Hawkeye Carver arena and wrestle.

Michael, on this you were right - being in Rec Hall instead of BJC was the right call for Cael. There IS a competitive advantage in there for PSU.



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Discussion Topic: Bucks vs. PSU
Freddy Carr added to this discussion on February 4, 2018

Went as I expected except I had McKenna losing and Moore winning. And didn't expect Martin to get beat so soundly.

PSU is absolutely incredible. They'll win in March going away. IMO OSU (also incredible) will be closer to 3rd than 1st. It is impossible not to appreciate PSU and Cael's greatness. Amazing to do that without Nolf. Blowout if he wrestles.



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Discussion Topic: Bucks vs. PSU
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 4, 2018

Bucks had the dual win in sight after first five but faltered. Only big negative among those bouts was Nate leaving a team point on table. That weight cut hurts a lot. And am I the only one who thought McKenna might have had two backs during a scramble where he was in danger of pinning himself?

Second five bouts hurt.

Campbell did his job but his mental game needs to improve. He shows too much negative emotion when facing adversity.

Bo wrestled well for six minutes but the last minute was all Hall. I wish he could have gotten to his offense. Easier said than done.

Myles was the big disappointment but not because he lost. It's how. He was almost out late in the match but got brought back to the mat. Then he stopped. Nickal took advantage and scored two quick back with under ten seconds. Suddenly it's an MD. That helped PSU more than words can say.

Moore has been skating on thin ice for awhile. And Cael had a plan. Lefty v Lefty. Took away a lot of what makes Moore special. In fairness to Moore, I think he gives his best. He is a bonafide title contender and yesterday's loss doesn't change it.

Snyder tried too hard to win it by himself and made uncharacteristic mistakes. If the MD would have won the bout, I think he gets it. But he felt he needed a pin. As great as he is, he's giving up too much size to try laterals and take unneccesary risks. At one point, his knee was in an awkward position. If he'd blown it out in this dual, it would be truly awful for Kyle and USA Wrestling. Kyle, the ref and the coaches need to take more care. This dual wasn't worth his knee getting seriously injured.

The Bucks now finish up at Michigan and at NC State. Not the same as rec hall but we'll see how they recover mentally from a huge disappointment. Myles finishes up with Abounader and Renda. His life isn't getting any easier.

Incidentally, I love Myles and the way he competes. But think back to the Iowa match and how he got in trouble late in the bout. This is a weakness. He has to finish stronger--win or lose.



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Discussion Topic: Bucks vs. PSU
Rex Holman added to this discussion on February 4, 2018

NaTo has big balls. I really appreciated his effort.

Pletcher is very good tactically and reminds me of Pucillo as it is very difficult to get to his legs.

It feels like McKenna can score the first takedown against anyone.

Hayes is really good even in losing by TF. If he was really good off the mat, he could upset Retherford this year.

Micah is showing incremental gains.

TeShan is a great explosive wrestler but struggles with the grind.

Bo is excellent, but so are Hall and Valencia.

Myles takes Nickal down from behind with a small adjustment.

They figured KMoore out and PSU coaches get an A+.

Snyder would have got the major if that was his goal at the outset, but was influenced by other things.



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Discussion Topic: Bucks vs. PSU
J.P. Barner added to this discussion on February 4, 2018

I give Nate a pass because who knew PSU would put out a PAC10 champ on such short notice? How the heck does that happen..I know how but it's kind of ridiculous. Nate was not prepared at all for him - advantage PSU.

I've loved Pletcher since watching him in HS - never looks like the best wrestler on the mat, but at the end, he's the guy with the most points.



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Discussion Topic: Bucks vs. PSU
Jim Behrens added to this discussion on February 4, 2018

Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:

"
At one point, his knee was in an awkward position. If he'd blown it out in this dual, it would be truly awful for Kyle and USA Wrestling. Kyle, the ref and the coaches need to take more care. This dual wasn't worth his knee getting seriously injured.
"



At the risk of sounding like an official, I don't see where the responsibility for this lies with any official. The wrestler, possibly the opponent, or the game plan put him in those positions. The official had nothing to do with it. You can not stop something until it happens.

BTW, I watch some of the positions, especially with legs, that are allowed in college wrestling and I am truly amazed that they are permitted. I know the old line about this is college wrestling but joints of the body do not know that. In the meantime we have stalemate or stalling calls made concerning the tying up of fingers.

Also BTW, I have a real issue with near fall points bing awarded anywhere between 45 and 90 degrees. If that is what is going to be done, no problem but, change the rule book to reflect it.



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Discussion Topic: Bucks vs. PSU
Chris Thomas added to this discussion on February 4, 2018

Quote from Jim Behrens's post:

"

Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:

"
At one point, his knee was in an awkward position. If he'd blown it out in this dual, it would be truly awful for Kyle and USA Wrestling. Kyle, the ref and the coaches need to take more care. This dual wasn't worth his knee getting seriously injured.
"



At the risk of sounding like an official, I don't see where the responsibility for this lies with any official. The wrestler, possibly the opponent, or the game plan put him in those positions. The official had nothing to do with it. You can not stop something until it happens.

BTW, I watch some of the positions, especially with legs, that are allowed in college wrestling and I am truly amazed that they are permitted. I know the old line about this is college wrestling but joints of the body do not know that. In the meantime we have stalemate or stalling calls made concerning the tying up of fingers.

Also BTW, I have a real issue with near fall points bing awarded anywhere between 45 and 90 degrees. If that is what is going to be done, no problem but, change the rule book to reflect it."



I don't think the officiating was terrible but it was pro Penn State at times. In BoJo's match when they hit him for stalling he got out of position which led to Halls duck under because he knew he had to take a shoot pretty soon. They definitely missed Mckenna's back points but gave rutherford his quickly. In Myles match the first takedown on the edge should of been out a bounds because his hand was out before Nickel secured the two. However, the coaching staff reviewed the wrong situation ultimately. In Pletcher match he gave Keener a stalling point when I think he might of physically touched Luke's leg once during the whole bout.



Last edited by Chris Thomas on February 4, 2018; edited 1 time in total

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Discussion Topic: Bucks vs. PSU
Joe Kinzel added to this discussion on February 4, 2018

Does anyone else think that if Bo were to wrestle Hall with the same mentality he had in HS and his freshman year he would win by 3-4 points? It just seems to me he wrestles too cautiously like he’s trying not to lose instead of attacking.

Snyder tried to do too much. He needed the MD and could have had that easily had he not been so hyped up. The throw was ill advised but had it worked the whole nation would be talking about it today.

Nevills deserves MVW for his effort. I won’t take that away from him but had he been in a Buckeye singlet the official would have given him three stall calls.

Cael mad the right decision wrestling in that venue. Not only did it sway the ref, our guys seemed intimidated by the crowd.

If I seem too down on the team it’s only my disappointment showing.
I’m wise enough to understand that a Big10 Championship or a National Championship will make everyone forget about last night and the Buckeyes are capable of pulling off both.



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Discussion Topic: Bucks vs. PSU
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 4, 2018

Quote from Rex Holman's post:

"NaTo has big balls. I really appreciated his effort.

Pletcher is very good tactically and reminds me of Pucillo as it is very difficult to get to his legs.

It feels like McKenna can score the first takedown against anyone.

Hayes is really good even in losing by TF. If he was really good off the mat, he could upset Retherford this year.

Micah is showing incremental gains.

TeShan is a great explosive wrestler but struggles with the grind.

Bo is excellent, but so are Hall and Valencia.

Myles takes Nickal down from behind with a small adjustment.

They figured KMoore out and PSU coaches get an A+.

Snyder would have got the major if that was his goal at the outset, but was influenced by other things."



You are my wrestling shrink. Thanks for this post. It helps.



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Discussion Topic: Bucks vs. PSU
Chris Thomas added to this discussion on February 4, 2018

Quote from Freddy Carr's post:

"Went as I expected except I had McKenna losing and Moore winning. And didn't expect Martin to get beat so soundly.

PSU is absolutely incredible. They'll win in March going away. IMO OSU (also incredible) will be closer to 3rd than 1st. It is impossible not to appreciate PSU and Cael's greatness. Amazing to do that without Nolf. Blowout if he wrestles."



If Nolf isn't near a 100% Ohio State can win the national tournament this year. Who could finish in front of the Buckeyes other than Penn State? ABSOLUTELY NO ONE! Nato is coming off a bad injury by March he will be a lot better. Moore has been nicked up all year. Time heals all wounds and we will be better in March like always. Can BoJo beat Hall? Yes. Can Myles reverse the outcome with Nickel? Yes. I feel that Mckenna can beat anyone at his weight class if he is locked and loaded for nationals. Can Micah beat Kemerer? I seen a path to beating him from their match a couple of weeks ago. My main point is that Ohio St. has a chance if they can reverse a few outcomes in March.



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Discussion Topic: Bucks vs. PSU
Jim Behrens added to this discussion on February 4, 2018

Quote from Chris Thomas's post:

"

I don't think the officiating was terrible but it was pro Penn State at times. In BoJo's match when they hit him for stalling he got out of position which led to Halls duck under because he knew he had to take a shoot pretty soon. They definitely missed Mckenna's back points but gave rutherford his quickly. In Myles match the first takedown on the edge should of been out a bounds because his hand was out before Nickel secured the two. However, the coaching staff reviewed the wrong situation ultimately. In Pletcher match he gave Keener a stalling point when I think he might of physically touched Luke's leg once during the whole bout."



That I don't disagree with at all. Being an official i would like to think that the right calls were made regardless.
I don't remember all the things I saw that bothered me but there were more than a few.
I especially don't like stalling calls made in the center of the mat, avoiding a shot attempt, but then allowing a parallel ride with no attempt to improve or turn. The CENTER of the mat!! I can't really imagine making a call like that.
I don't remember which match it was (I will assume Retherford's based on what you wrote) but I remember commenting to the GF that if there was a to two count, I would love to see it from his angle. Again, I suspect it gets back to counting at anything less than 90*.



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Discussion Topic: Bucks vs. PSU
Justin Hayes added to this discussion on February 4, 2018

With a heavy heart, I'm having a hard time seeing NaTo win it all. (Suriano concerns me, but Spencer concerns me greatly, as he sucks the will of his opponent to live right out of him from the top position.)

I like McKenna.

I want so badly for the Jordan boys to win it all...but just don't see it.

I can't tell if Hall always looks small for the weight class to me or if it just that Bo is so huge.

Hall is Bo's Artful Dodger; it seems over and over he waits for what I call a "Lumbering Position" (where Bo lumbers out of position for just a fraction of a second) and fires a round (or takedown) right through that very small, temporary window of opportunity. Cousin Isaac seemed to have the same understanding of Bo's propensity to lumber at critical junctures in a match, but I digress...

I don't even know what to think about Nickal and Martin. It seemed that when Nickal unexpectedly relaxed after Martin got behind, Martin was waiting for a response to adjust the takedown rather than capitalize on the opportunity?

I hear Ted Nugent's "Free-For-All"" playing whenever Vincenzo Joseph wrestles.

Pause your DVR on Retherford's match right at the start of the third period and you'll see his manic Axe Murderer eyes. So.Much.Fun!

I felt like I was watching a live enactment of Casey At The Bat while watching Kollin's match.

Too many unorthodox, outlier variables for even Snyder to contend with, thus the peculiar lateral attempt. Darn impressed with Nevills agility for his size...I'm not real crazy about Snyder engaging him repeatedly.

Maybe more later...



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Discussion Topic: Bucks vs. PSU
J.P. Barner added to this discussion on February 4, 2018

Hall would be a 165 anywhere else.



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Discussion Topic: Bucks vs. PSU
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on February 4, 2018

I remember Kolat looking bad bad bad vs Ironside when they dual’d in HWC. Kolat was champ that year. Logan looked bad vs Zain in Rec Hall; Logan was Champ that year.

While it was disappointing to have a chance to win and not get it done, still 6 weeks to strengthen the advantages the Bucks have and correct the errors that were made.



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