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Discussion Topic: Playing the "What If" Game?
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 18, 2018
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Tomasello went back to 125 and took 3rd. What if he had stayed at 133? Did the weight cut affect his performance?
Would he have won 133?
What if Hayes and McKenna swapped weights? How does Hayes do at 141? Does Joey Mac finish as a high AA at 149?
What if Micah had gone 149? How much higher might he have finished?
What if Bo had never suffered repeated injuries? Could a healthy Bo have taken out Hall or Valencia?
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Discussion Topic: Playing the "What If" Game?
Drew Taylor added to this discussion on March 19, 2018
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Nate did a wonderful job of handling the cut to 125. He wrestled with energy all season long and did not look sucked down. Conversely, I thought he looked a step slow last year at 133. Now, if the question is which weight was more ideal to winning a NCAA title, the answer is the one without Spencer Lee. But keep in mind Nate's decision to go 125 preceded Iowa's decision to pull Lee's redshirt.
The McKenna-Hayes dilemma was handled properly, in my opinion. McKenna is short and looks like a 141-pounder. He absolutely could have won the title and may have been robbed of the winning takedown in the semis against Meredith. Hayes is rangy and looks like a 149-pounder. A bad draw kept him from reaching the podium. In hindsight Tom Ryan should have made this call in the summer to give Hayes more time to grow into the weight. The mid-October wrestleoff made little sense.
Micah was affected most by the weight shifts. He was undersized at 157 and kept looking smaller and smaller as the year progressed. Muscleheads like Pantaleo and Hidlay gave him fits. He finished sixth, losing to three Big 10 wrestlers. At 149 he's probably top four, but with no chance of winning the title.
Could a healthy Bo have beaten Zahid Valencia? Hard to say. Bo hasn't been healthy in three years. Valencia and Hall lucked out.
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Discussion Topic: Playing the "What If" Game?
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on March 19, 2018
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Quote from Drew Taylor's post:
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"Micah was affected most by the weight shifts. He was undersized at 157 and kept looking smaller and smaller as the year progressed. Muscleheads like Pantaleo and Hidlay gave him fits. He finished sixth, losing to three Big 10 wrestlers. At 149 he's probably top four, but with no chance of winning the title."
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I agree 100% with this (and if reports by BobP are correct and Micah is going to be challenging for the 149 spot, I'm super excited for him) -- BUT Berger wasn't a muscle head that gave him fits. He dominated him at B1G's (even in a 4-3 win). That was a winnable match - and then Kemmerer gets hurt in 3rd place match and Berger finishes in 3rd place.
Imagine how much different that finish would make the decision feel?
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Discussion Topic: Playing the "What If" Game?
Jeff Fortman added to this discussion on March 19, 2018
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Nate at 133, could have been a toss up again. Id maybe give him the nodd over the 2 finalist. He did excellent i thought at 125. Lee is on another level right now, not that nate couldn't have beat him though.
Hayes had his oppportunity, he needed to win that match in the championship bracket to avoid running into Iowa. That was a very winnable match as well. If i remember correctly i did not see a ton of offense in the match. Not bad for his first go around. The unfortunate thing is we are holding all these guys to the very best standard and we all know that anything can happen. Losing alot this year however, we return alot as well.
125 - Not sure what this will bring us.
133- Pletcher will return and i see him being top 4.
141- Joey - the ability to win a national title. I see him top 2.
149 - Hays should AA if he continues to improve.
157- Micah - will return and hopefully get within top 3.
165 - who konws ?
174- ?
184 - Martin, If next year is anything like what we saw here, i see him winning it. I'm sorry but after watching his wrestling over the course of the weekend i think had he not been hit in that funk, it was going to turn out bad for penn state. Martin constantly pressures and looks for scoring. Most improved on the team i must say.
285- We have the possibility to make some noise here, to early to tell at this point though.
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Discussion Topic: Playing the "What If" Game?
Joe Johnson added to this discussion on March 20, 2018
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McKenna is short and looks like a 141-pounder. He absolutely could have won the title and may have been robbed of the winning takedown in the semis against Meredith.
Was anyone else surprised that we didn't challenge the last moment in the semis to see if Joey has the td? Couldn't have hurt, right?
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Discussion Topic: Playing the "What If" Game?
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 20, 2018
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Quote from Joe Johnson's post:
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"McKenna is short and looks like a 141-pounder. He absolutely could have won the title and may have been robbed of the winning takedown in the semis against Meredith.
Was anyone else surprised that we didn't challenge the last moment in the semis to see if Joey has the td? Couldn't have hurt, right?"
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i think we had no challenges left. ... question, was it smart to choose neutral to begin the third down 1-0 ? fear of not being able to escape in under a minute caused the choice, and even in retro i think a wise choice. McKenna had to get a Tkdwn sometime to win the match, he had an entire period, but he couldnt do it. So many ways ohio st could have won tourn, it is exasperating.
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Discussion Topic: Playing the "What If" Game?
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 20, 2018
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fyi --
CLEVELAND, OHIO – At The Big Show
fans see which states produce the most talent,
it’s on display, numbers over time don’t lie.
This season the states with the most NCAA
Division I qualifiers were king Pennsylvania
(53), prince Ohio (30), Illinois (27), New
Jersey and California (both 21), Michigan (17),
New York (13), Missouri and Minnesota (both
12), Iowa and Colorado (both 11), and Virginia,
Oklahoma, Indiana, and Georgia (all with 9).
(Source Flowrestling.com).
As is usually the
case the top two in All-American production
were Pennsylvania (with 15) and Ohio (with
11), though last year Ohio was number one.
Next by state New Jersey (with 8), California,
Michigan and Oklahoma (with 5); Indiana and
Minnesota (with 4); Iowa, Missouri and New
York (with 3 each). (Source: wrestling’s best
statistician Denny Diehl.)
St. Edward Streak
For the last 35 years, St. Edward
of Lakewood Ohio has had at least one
All-American competing in the NCAA's
championships. Only once during the streak
has the All-American not been at the Division
I level. In fact, in 18 of those years, the Eagles
had multiple Division I All-Americans. This
year St. Edward continued their amazing
streak to 36 years when the 184 pounder from
Michigan, Dominic Abounader, took fifth. At
the Ohio state tournament No. 8 ranked St. Eds
won their 32nd Division I state tournament
title, had four in the finals with 2 champs and
nine placers.
Graham Public School Champs
No. 5 St. Paris Graham Ohio won its
18th consecutive Division II title with four
individual champs including four-timer Mitch
Moore headed to Virginia Tech. Based on
consensus rankings from major publications,
Graham is AWN’s mythical Public School
National Champion edging two California
schools No. 6 Buchanan and No. 10 Poway.
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