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Discussion Topic: Ohio State - Dr Richard Strauss
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on July 10, 2018
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Quote from Joe Kinzel's post:
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"It seems as though at least some of the seven accusers are saying Jim Jordan knew about the abuse because there were wrestlers joking about it in the locker room and he must have been present at least some of the times the wrestlers were joking about it."
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Joe: I had read many articles about this situation and I am yet to see one article that states Jim Jordan (or Russ Hellickson) was told about sexual abuse (or sexual assault).
Nowhere in the articles published has anyone stated that they went to Jim Jordan (or Russ Hellickson) with an accusation of physical sexual abuse at the hands of Dr. Strauss.
If you did read an article with that in it, please post it here.
All articles state something to the effect of “culture of deviance†at Larkin Hall, voyeurism by the doctor, odd behavior and requests (Yetts: remove pants for an unrelated injury).
But at no point was Russ Hellickson or Jim Jordan - in the articles I’ve read - informed of a situation sexual abuse by the wrestlers.
And that is where the confusion remains. Knowing that a doctor is an odd doc/duck or that Larkin Hall was a cesspool of ratchet and gnarly behavior is much different than Russ or Jim being informed about sexual abuse and doing nothing with that information.
Jordan is being accused of the latter.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State - Dr Richard Strauss
Joe Kinzel added to this discussion on July 10, 2018
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Quote from Mark Niemann's post:
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"
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Quote from Joe Kinzel's post:
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"It seems as though at least some of the seven accusers are saying Jim Jordan knew about the abuse because there were wrestlers joking about it in the locker room and he must have been present at least some of the times the wrestlers were joking about it."
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Joe: I had read many articles about this situation and I am yet to see one article that states Jim Jordan (or Russ Hellickson) was told about sexual abuse (or sexual assault).
Nowhere in the articles published has anyone stated that they went to Jim Jordan (or Russ Hellickson) with an accusation of physical sexual abuse at the hands of Dr. Strauss.
If you did read an article with that in it, please post it here.
All articles state something to the effect of “culture of deviance†at Larkin Hall, voyeurism by the doctor, odd behavior and requests (Yetts: remove pants for an unrelated injury).
But at no point was Russ Hellickson or Jim Jordan - in the articles I’ve read - informed of a situation sexual abuse by the wrestlers.
And that is where the confusion remains. Knowing that a doctor is an odd doc/duck or that Larkin Hall was a cesspool of ratchet and gnarly behavior is much different than Russ or Jim being informed about sexual abuse and doing nothing with that information.
Jordan is being accused of the latter."
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Mark,
that was the point I was trying to make in my statement. It looks bad for the Congressman when seven former wrestlers accuse him of knowing until you realize most of the guys are saying he must have known because "we joked about it in the locker room and he must have overheard us joking."
If you go back and read my earlier comments on this thread I think it will help explain my position.
I'll take the word of the Congressman and six other coaches over the assumptions of at least some of the wrestlers.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State - Dr Richard Strauss
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on July 10, 2018
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I think Mark sums up the situation pretty well. But to assume the coaches don't have a vested interest in covering their asses is naive.
That said--there is no evidence at this point that makes obvious that Jordan or Hellickson knew that sexual abuse was taking place. At least none of which I'm aware.
And just to be clear, I don't care for Jordan's politics. But I would not want to see him wrongly accused and convicted of a cover-up unless it's clearly demonstrated he knew sexual abuse was taking place.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State - Dr Richard Strauss
Brandon Gambucci added to this discussion on July 10, 2018
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Agreed on all points, here.
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"I think Mark sums up the situation pretty well. But to assume the coaches don't have a vested interest in covering their asses is naive.
That said--there is no evidence at this point that makes obvious that Jordan or Hellickson knew that sexual abuse was taking place. At least none of which I'm aware.
And just to be clear, I don't care for Jordan's politics. But I would not want to see him wrongly accused and convicted of a cover-up unless it's clearly demonstrated he knew sexual abuse was taking place."
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State - Dr Richard Strauss
Freddy Carr added to this discussion on July 10, 2018
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How abusive could it have been if there was this prolific amount of joking going on about it?
Sounds like dude was a real weirdo. But abusive? If so, why so much joking around?
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State - Dr Richard Strauss
Rex Holman added to this discussion on July 10, 2018
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Conflation:
The process or result of fusing items into one entity.
Two things may be distinctly different but misconstrued as one thing.
Two things might seem similar enough to group into one, but are really two very different things
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State - Dr Richard Strauss
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on July 10, 2018
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State - Dr Richard Strauss
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on July 10, 2018
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Quote from Freddy Carr's post:
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"How abusive could it have been if there was this prolific amount of joking going on about it?
Sounds like dude was a real weirdo. But abusive? If so, why so much joking around?"
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As Mark explained, Larkins was a cesspool and a hangout for perverts. My understanding is that everyone knew including AD Andy Geiger. But what's less clear to me is what was said by wrestlers to coaches specifically about Dr. Strauss.
I think the joking was a way that guys were coping with the weirdness/predatory nature of their surroundings. I also think some people are easier to victimize than others. Hence the idea that "big, strong wrestlers" couldn't be preyed on by someone smaller and weaker is nonsense.
The individual who told me he was abused by Strauss could have beaten the hell out of him. He just didn't expect it and didn't know what to do when it did.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State - Dr Richard Strauss
Freddy Carr added to this discussion on July 11, 2018
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Good thoughts, Hank.
I could see a coach, hearing all the joking, not coming to the conclusion that there was all of this abuse going on. A coach may not assume the joking was coming from a bunch of kids that were coping with being abused.
If a coach gets a more formal abuse complaint, that is different. But to say that a coach MUST have known about rampant abuse because he was hearing locker room jokes might be a stretch.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State - Dr Richard Strauss
Justin Hayes added to this discussion on July 11, 2018
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I hope everyone will reread the posts by the .net attorneys.
There is objective criteria in place to structure both accusation and defense, elements to define what is a crime, mechamism in place to act on an assertion, etc.
It is deliciously attractive to us to be Internet pontificators...as long as we aren’t the target and we aren’t going to have to actually give an account in any of the aforementioned paradigms.
Would you hold yourself to the standard JJ is being held to in any place you’ve ever worked or been entrusted with authority or had influence? (“But he is a Representative, Coach, blah, blah,†is an evasive response, ignoring the essence of the question.)
Yet another real world example of why absolute truth outside of ourselves is necessary, good, right, and helpful.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State - Dr Richard Strauss
Justin Hayes added to this discussion on July 11, 2018
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State - Dr Richard Strauss
Rex Holman added to this discussion on July 11, 2018
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With regards to the attack on Jim Jordan,
"A Procrustean solution is the undesirable practice of tailoring data to fit its container or some other preconceived structure. It is a form of rhetorical deception made to forward one set of interests at the expense of another. The unique goal of the Procrustean solution is not win-win, but rather that Procrustes wins and the other loses. In this case, the defeat of the opponent justifies the deceptive means." -Wiki
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State - Dr Richard Strauss
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on July 12, 2018
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Justin - absolutely true - about an #AbsoluteTruth
Rex - sadly this is all to true (and not just in this siutation).
John Ziegler’s take on this: go to about the 41 minute mark. https://t.co/EPuVhX7XVX?ssr=true
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State - Dr Richard Strauss
Joe Kinzel added to this discussion on July 12, 2018
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Ziegler certainly has some interesting points.
Michigan State paid out 100's of millions of dollars to the victims of Nassar. For me, the timing of these allegations has become clear.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State - Dr Richard Strauss
Freddy Carr added to this discussion on July 12, 2018
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