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Discussion Topic: The Inside Trip podcast
Brandon Gambucci added to this discussion on August 24, 2018
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"No one here has disagreed Straus was a strange guy, perhaps a sex offender."
I feel like...that's a bit of understatement. Being sexually abused is something that happens to people of all ages and just because you've turned 18,19,20,or 21, doesn't magically make anyone better equipped to handle that happening to you. I just think we should steer away from saying the athletes had a "responsibility to report" Strauss' behavior, personally.
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Discussion Topic: The Inside Trip podcast
Roe Fox added to this discussion on August 25, 2018
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Quote from Brandon Gambucci's post:
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""No one here has disagreed Straus was a strange guy, perhaps a sex offender."
I feel like...that's a bit of understatement. Being sexually abused is something that happens to people of all ages and just because you've turned 18,19,20,or 21, doesn't magically make anyone better equipped to handle that happening to you. I just think we should steer away from saying the athletes had a "responsibility to report" Strauss' behavior, personally."
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I think your playing semantics when you believe calling someone a sex offender is understating his conduct. A rapist is a sex offender, as is someone who fondles someone’s genetalia against his will.
The age issue is simply a societal question I raise because I don’t know the answer. Maturity comes at different times for a lot of people. I know TOSU just held Urb and Gene responsible for not reporting Smith’s conduct FURTHER than they already did — to the police. I understand their age/status is different.
I also recall reading that a 16 year old diver at TOSU reported abuse and the club diving coach was immediately put on leave, then terminated. That likely saved others from abuse because we know he did it earlier at another place to at least two others. It’s also a more sensitive era now than the 80s and 90s.
If even one athlete had taken his complaint further than a coach if they didn’t get a satisfactory response — lawsuit, police — perhaps Strauss doesn’t offend so many others.
I am not diasagreeing that many felt they could not. It’s just at 20 years old what should be the expectation? I am not meaning this as blame shifting because the clear responsibility for these disgusting acts lies with Strauss.
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Discussion Topic: The Inside Trip podcast
Lou Demas added to this discussion on August 25, 2018
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"Lou...We have debated enough topics on this forum that I understand that we just don’t see the world the same. To go through your post point by point would further a discussion that doesn’t need to take place. I understand your stance, you’ve made yourself clear. I will say this...even if all of the negative things you say are going to happen to the victims end up happening, coming forward is still the right thing to do."
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Mike R.
Mike I'm not asking you to rebuttal point-for-point but you made very bold statements about the fact they should have known, they propped up the institution it and happened on their watch.
Again without anyone coming forward with actual allegations of sexual assault what makes somebody just "not right" to start investigation or have someone criminally arrested?
Because what is somewhat crazy in me you have to very conservative coaches,you even said of Jim Jordan he was tea party before the was tea party Jim Jordan is also been very public on his stance on his support of traditional marriage and his opposition to gay marriage.Now why in the world would they try to cover up for a for a sexual predator.?
Years ago coaches just could have said, hey he makes guys feel awkward we think he's gay he's fired.
Now at a liberal College in a liberal City it was 2 very morally conservative coaches who were enabling and allowing a sexual predator to thrive!
So Mike you do not have to argue me point-for-point just the one point the criteria of which somebody can fire somebody, start investigation or get somebody criminally arrested.
With all due respect, I believe you do realize you're in a political correctness quagmire. You cannot list obvious traits of a gay male sexual predator without coming off possibly homophobic!
Being feminine having, soft hands And over hearing wrestlers telling homophobic jokes about their team doctor being gay and enjoying his exams. These would give somebody the reason to go on a gay Witch Hunt!
You and I actually have the same worldview on this neither of us believe that should be used as criteria to go after a gay male to assume he is a sexual predator! However a wrestler making sexual assault allegations against him would!
Unfortunately and tragically many victims of sexual abuse do not come forward and I applaud you for coming forward hopefully this makes it easier for other people to come forward. You asked how can we stop this in the future? By doing what you're doing and trying to erase the stigma an embarrassment being attached to being a victim of sexual assault.
However, you stated how can this hurt Jim Jordan,it won't hurt him a bit. I think that's wishful thinking on your part. Obama's former special counsel is trying to start an Ethics investigation because of this story after Story in the media is about a cover-up and how he didn't protect his athletes from sexual assault. I think Al Franken should be a pretty good reminder about something small a couple of jokes from the past can really hurt somebody let alone something like this.
As for Coach hellickson name getting run through the muck. Anybody who knows coach Hellickson as you do knows he is not going to get pressured by his former assistant coach even if he is a congressman Coach Hellickson, does the right thing because it's the right thing not because Jim Jordan or some right-wing political machine got to him! What are they going to do audit his taxes? I believe Coach Hellickson is great man, his legacy shouldn't be tainted as the last thing he's being remembered for,is athlete's accusing him of covering up sexual assaults. There is not a single athlete saying coach hellickson was told that they were sexually assaulted and he did nothing about it. Coaches who would support a Christian Baker's right not to bake a cake for something they don't morally believe in, won't go to bat for an athlete who is sexually assaulted by another male. Any of that make sense and that he should go through this at his age to me as tragic!
Chris,
Coaches aren't psychic many times in our society you hear about a parent who didn't know his kids were on drugs or had suicidal thoughts and it ends in tragedy. Just because your victim doesn't mean you can say anything you want in the news on media outlets, if you make bold statements you need to be able to support them.
So I do have compassion I just have compassion for two more people. I do not lack compassion for victims of sexual assault, I don't believe it gives them carte blanche to say what they want or blame somebody else for something they didn't know about,maybe you should read listen to the podcast that Michael Rodriguez did. There is no victim blaming on my part I side on the fact that I think the guy did it.
I applaud Mike for coming forward I think that is a huge step in trying to erase the stigma especially of male sexual assault. That is how we can stop these Predators by people feeling comfortable enough to openly come forward. Not by trying to make people responsible for something they did not know about years later!
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Discussion Topic: The Inside Trip podcast
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on August 27, 2018
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Lou...Clearly this is a topic that you are passionate about. I’m not sure what more you’re looking for. I’ve given my first-hand account of what happened while I was there. You say you commend victims for coming forward, but you outline the ways in which their stories could be false. You say you’re not against me, but you take time out of your day to write in great detail about hypothetical ways that I could have made the whole thing up. Regardless of what I (or anyone else not named Jordan) say, you have formed an opinion. You know what happened and what didn’t. You know who knew what and when. I wish the investigators would call you so you can shed light on this complicated situation.
I say again, I am confident that when the investigators compete their work, they will come to a conclusion very close to what I have described. I believe that because that’s what happened.
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Discussion Topic: The Inside Trip podcast
Lou Demas added to this discussion on August 30, 2018
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"Lou...Clearly this is a topic that you are passionate about. I’m not sure what more you’re looking for. I’ve given my first-hand account of what happened while I was there. You say you commend victims for coming forward, but you outline the ways in which their stories could be false. You say you’re not against me, but you take time out of your day to write in great detail about hypothetical ways that I could have made the whole thing up. Regardless of what I (or anyone else not named Jordan) say, you have formed an opinion. You know what happened and what
didn’t. You know who knew what and when. I wish the investigators would call you so you can shed light on this complicated situation.
I say again, I am confident that when the investigators compete their work, they will come to a conclusion very close to what I have described. I believe that because that’s what happened."
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Mike R.
The only thing I have actually formed opinion on is, that two very good man are getting thrown under the bus one for political reasons and the other caught up in it just trying to do the right thing!
Do you think that somehow if the investigators would call me and tell me yes, we believe everything Michael Rodriguez said was true, that would vindicate you from the fact that slandered both coach hellickson and Jim Jordan. You're okay with your own hypotheticals that say, coaches should have known and that they propped up the institution, Yet, I've asked you repeatedly how they have could known?
What I'm looking for you to be intellectually honest! Do you feel that if a man is feminine, has soft hands showers for a long time and people tell "nervously" homophobic jokes about him. He should be investigated for being a sexual predator I think you'll run into a lot of problems with not only liberals but conservatives on that
Or you have to be intellectually honesty and say I'm going to stand by all my comments in that podcast they were good men and their men of high integrity and it makes absolutely no sense why two very morally conservative men would try to cover for somebody they though was a sexual predator.
What I think you should be doing is standing shoulder-to-shoulder with your coaches supporting them,and not let them get caught up in some political Witch Hunt!
I will be honest and I always have said this,that this guy was a weirdo who played the fine line to get away with his perverse nature but one of the things that makes me skeptical of your story is the fact that you're still throwing Russ Hellickson and Jim Jordan to the wolves. Because there's really no money in it if it's not somebody else's fault!
You may still get some money out of this University may not like the bad publicity but but how much money is it worth to tarnish a man's Legacy?
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Discussion Topic: The Inside Trip podcast
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on August 30, 2018
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Jesus Lou, do you ever go back and read what you write? And do you comprehend what I write? I STAND BY MY COMMENTS IN THE PODCAST THAT I THINK THEY ARE GOOD MEN OF HIGH INTEGRITY...WHO SHOULD HAVE KNOWN AND WHO HELPED PROP UP AN INSTITUTION THAT ALLOWED THIS SEXUAL PREDATOR TO THRIVE. Both can be true.
You seem to have this binary way of thinking that “good men†never make mistakes. They do. This situation is proof of that. How can something like this happen if everyone had their eye one on the ball? The answer is, it couldn’t. And I include myself in that responsibility. There are men that this happened to, men I’ve spoken to since speaking out, that happened AFTER I left. Part of that is on me. If I would have spoke up then, if I would’ve yelled and screamed and made people listen, it could’ve stopped then. I didn’t. I was part of the problem. I propped up the university and contributed to the environment that allowed Strauss to thrive.
You can’t learn from a horrible situation if you don’t admit what happened and what role you played it.
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Last edited by Michael Rodriguez on August 30, 2018; edited 1 time in total
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Discussion Topic: The Inside Trip podcast
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on August 30, 2018
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Lou:
I'm no fan of political correctness and agree that the media likes to play judge and jury without a full accounting of the facts. Heck--I even think it's likely Urban Meyer is getting a raw deal given what I know about his situation.
But hinting to a victim that they're more interested in money than justice is not very Christian like in my opinion.
I'll leave it at that.
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Discussion Topic: The Inside Trip podcast
Lou Demas added to this discussion on August 30, 2018
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[quote="Michael Rodriguez"]Jesus Lou, do you ever go back and read what you write? And do you comprehend what I write? I STAND BY MY COMMENTS IN THE PODCAST THAT I THINK THEY ARE GOOD MEN OF HIGH INTEGRITY...WHO SHOULD HAVE KNOWN AND WHO HELPED PROP UP AN INSTITUTION THAT ALLOWED THIS SEXUAL PREDATOR TO THRIVE. Both can be true.
Mike R.
At the 22 minutes or so Mark you totally exonerate Jim Jordan and I quote
"He was a boy scout he was the genuine article and I honestly believe if he would have known or even thought that there was actual abuse going on, I think he would have done something about it"
You even said, you didn't even think it was a possibility for it to happen to you the day before, so how could you even thought he, Jim Could have!
The whole podcast is like,that they couldn't have known, to right-wing conspiracy theories of a cover up!
The above quote totally contradicts what you said in the podcast!
Hank,
The above contradiction that I quoted it's just one of many in the podcast. So I'm not being unchristian when I'm wondering why and asking Mike to clarify how come his narrative change so drastically within one podcast.
Mike is still avoided the question of what would be the criteria for the coaches to have started an investigation into Dr strauss's sexual assaulting of athletes. Mike just offers a vague they knew ,they had to have known! Based on what?
If you want to slander two people I think you have to have a bit more than they knew or they should have known. So yes the inconsistencies in the podcast and the vagueness of his support of the fact that they knew and they should have known, does lead someone to guess what truly motivate someone to do this?
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Discussion Topic: The Inside Trip podcast
Jim Behrens added to this discussion on August 30, 2018
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Lou,
I don't know you and you don't know me.
I don't think Mike needs me, or anyone else, to defend him.
That said. it is my feeling that you are taking things out of context and putting your own spin on them. I listened to the podcast and I never felt that there was an agenda or that Mike contradicted himself. In fact I thought he went out of his way to state what he thought about what Jordan might have known while acknowledging that they are 180* apart politically.
Quite the contrary, I felt he (Mike) is/was conflicted over what actually happened and what should he should say about it.
Neither you nor I were there but he was. I would have to believe that what he says carries a lot more weight than anything you or I might have to say.
I would suggest that you take a step back and let the authorities do whatever has to be done. For example, I am still waiting to hear what the other 13 sports are and what their head coaches and assistant coaches knew.
Regardless, good people do make bad decisions in life. The difference is that most are not on a national stage. Jim Jordan does not need me or you to defend him.
I will have to paraphrase it but, IMO, the best line out of the whole interview revolved around the idea that there was no way Jordan could have known something that Mike (or others) did not tell him.
Take a deep breath. It isn't worth it to get so worked up over something you have zero control over.
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Discussion Topic: The Inside Trip podcast
Lou Demas added to this discussion on August 31, 2018
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[quote="Michael Rodriguez"]Jesus Lou, do you ever go back and read what you write? And do you comprehend what I write? I STAND BY MY COMMENTS IN THE PODCAST THAT I THINK THEY ARE GOOD MEN OF HIGH INTEGRITY...WHO SHOULD HAVE KNOWN AND WHO HELPED PROP UP AN INSTITUTION THAT ALLOWED THIS SEXUAL PREDATOR TO THRIVE. Both can be true.
Jim,
You say you found no contradictions and yet and I'm quoting you
"I will have to paraphrase it but in my opinion the best line out of the whole interview we're all go around the idea that there's no way Jordan could have known something that Mike (or others) did not tell him"
So if you read his above quote and then listen at the about and then at the 1 hour and 28 minute mark Mike agreeds with the other podcaster that he knew something and then states, it would be hard to be around the team and not know it.
This isn't spin on my part this is obvious contradictions!
So Jim, it's easy to make a blanket statement that good people make bad decisions in life. And that statement you too are convicting Jim Jordan and Coach Hellickson of making a bad decision and I have to ask you based on what facts did you decide that they made any sort of bad decisions?
How should they have know?
You see Jim you are right, you don't know me, I don't know you but I do know Russ Hellickson. I also know a lot of wrestlers who wrestled for him and I never heard them speak ill of his character of a man!
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Discussion Topic: The Inside Trip podcast
John Flanigan added to this discussion on August 31, 2018
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Lou,
Hate to break it to you, but Jim Jordan is NOT the victim here and I hear practically nothing in the news about his involvement in this. I respect the real victims much more because they had the courage to step forward and detail what happened. As for Jim, of course he knew and he should have been a man and said so. He was close enough in age to the wrestlers that he would have been involved with them at a different level than much of the staff. All he had to do was say that he had heard the talk, was young and did not know the appropriate action to take - because he probably didn't.
Move on Lou, and quit victim blaming here as you are to emotionally attached to this politically.
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Discussion Topic: The Inside Trip podcast
Roe Fox added to this discussion on August 31, 2018
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If the “it†everyone is mentioning is that Strauss was a creepy perverted guy, I find it hard to believe this wasn’t common knowledge to everyone affiliated with the team. I have read many accounts of that dorm, his actions, etc. Anyone who has ever wrestled or played another close knit team sport knows these things spread easily. I think it naive to believe that wouldn’t be known by the team members. Coach Hellickson acknowledged this.
If “it†is actual sexual abuse, I think it entirely possible, if not probable, neither Coach Hellickson nor Jim Jordan knew. Too many people suggesting the abuse seem to have kept it to themselves, for the most part.
Can we now talk about something less controversial, like outrageous penalty against Urb Hank mentioned?
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Discussion Topic: The Inside Trip podcast
Jim Behrens added to this discussion on August 31, 2018
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Quote from Lou Demas's post:
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"
So Jim, it's easy to make a blanket statement that good people make bad decisions in life. And that statement you too are convicting Jim Jordan and Coach Hellickson of making a bad decision and I have to ask you based on what facts did you decide that they made any sort of bad decisions?
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Lou,
This is just what I mean by taking things and spinning them to your view.
I was NOT saying that Jim Jordan or Russ Hellickson made any sort of bad decision and I certainly am not convicting them of anything.
As you noted, it is/was a blanket statement about people in general. Stop trying to make more of it than there is.
Out,
Jim
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Discussion Topic: The Inside Trip podcast
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on August 31, 2018
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Wait a minute Lou, this isn’t about Jordan? My bad, I just assumed this was a tribal Jordan thing...but you don’t even know Jordan and this is about Russ? That makes the discussion so much easier. Russ was the head coach. Russ was the captain of the ship. What happened on Russ’ watch was Russ’ responsibility. Period.
Furthermore, Russ is on the record answering the question you’ve been asking. You’ve tried to muddy the waters and create deniability by conflating homosexuality with predatory behavior. The FACT of the matter is Russ KNEW the exact thing I’ve been saying...the thing you’ve been harping on. He knew something was off, something was wrong with Dr. Strauss. He went to his A.D. with it. Case closed.
This doesn’t make Russ a bad guy. It makes him good man who was put in a very bad situation. He did some things right and some things wrong. I’m glad we had this conversation Lou. I feel much better knowing this is a “loyalty to Russ†thing and not a “political tribal†thing. Russ has been interviewed by the independent investigators. When the report comes out, you will see that Russ and I are on the same page. Have you talked to him lately?
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Discussion Topic: The Inside Trip podcast
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on August 31, 2018
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"Wait a minute Lou, this isn’t about Jordan? My bad, I just assumed this was a tribal Jordan thing...but you don’t even know Jordan and this is about Russ? That makes the discussion so much easier. Russ was the head coach. Russ was the captain of the ship. What happened on Russ’ watch was Russ’ responsibility. Period.
Furthermore, Russ is on the record answering the question you’ve been asking. You’ve tried to muddy the waters and create deniability by conflating homosexuality with predatory behavior. The FACT of the matter is Russ KNEW the exact thing I’ve been saying...the thing you’ve been harping on. He knew something was off, something was wrong with Dr. Strauss. He went to his A.D. with it. Case closed.
This doesn’t make Russ a bad guy. It makes him good man who was put in a very bad situation. He did some things right and some things wrong. I’m glad we had this conversation Lou. I feel much better knowing this is a “loyalty to Russ†thing and not a “political tribal†thing. Russ has been interviewed by the independent investigators. When the report comes out, you will see that Russ and I are on the same page. Have you talked to him lately?"
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I do believe that the move from Larkins to Stellwood was, in part, due to Russ going to the administration to vent his concerns about the conditions. Additionally, Russ is on record stating he told the doc he was too "hands on". I am 99.9% positive Russ is also on record stating he discussed the doc's showering habits (voyeurism) directly to the doc.
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