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Discussion Topic: "Nothing Off the Table" Line-up March 2020
Brian Nicola added to this discussion on November 19, 2019
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After the Virginia Tech loss, Coach Ryan said "nothing is off the table" in regards to the line-up. I'm sure we all have opinions, including who deserves what, who we like and even "saving" for redshirts.
That being said, Tom Ryan comes from the land of Gable, a man who was notorious for squeezing the most out of every line-up (Trizzino, Steiner to 134, Barry Davis at 118). The result was piles of B10 and NCAA titles. So, while he pissed people off, maxing out EVERY YEAR was always the goal.
I know we have Iowa haters here...and that's cool...but his model for point maximizing worked. Is that what we're seeing here? What is the best line-up for team points?
125 Decatuer R12
133 Pletcher NC/AA
141 Echemendia AA
149 Sasso NC/AA
157 Hayes R12
165 Karchla AA
174 Smith R12/NQ
184 Romero R12/NQ
197 Moore NC
285 Singletary R12/AA
Talk me down. I know Pletcher should stay at 141 for his best chance. I want him to stay at 141.
But is that best for March?
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Discussion Topic: "Nothing Off the Table" Line-up March 2020
Jared Ball added to this discussion on November 19, 2019
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I think FRL kinda covered this today. Do you go all in for a third place trophy? More than likely the Bucks don’t catch Iowa or PSU. I really don’t see Decatur being able to make 125 and still maintain any sense of energy.
125- Heinsleman isn’t showing much beyond being a qualifier right now. Things could change. As I said I don’t think Decatur can be effective that sucked out. Minimal point production at this weight.
133- Kinner will be more productive in a tournament system, and has shown enough to warrant R12 consideration. With the right draw who knows. Decatur AAs this year if the RS is pulled. He has the skill set to best all the top 133s except Gross, and I’m not sure he can hang with Desanto. Everyone else is fair game. Pletcher would be a finalist at this weight.
141- Pletcher is the best 141 currently on the roster and has a legitimate shot at the championship. Rumors are that Enchemendia may be able to make 141. No clue if that works or not but I’d have to think he’s a high AA consideration if that’s true.
149- Sasso is your guy. Outside of Sunday’s loss I still think he’s a high AA lock with a better than average chance to win it all.
157- lots of talk about Enchemendia but is he too small for this weight? Cleary has gotten all the matches so far and has been ho hum. Not sure what happened with Mattox. Seems like he may not see the mat at this weight. Hard to believe that a guy who owns wins over David Carr, Carson Karchla, and multiple over Conner Brady may never see the light of day at OSU. Hayes seems poised to bump up and be the starter moving forward. Looks to be another R12 weight max.
165- Smith. Great win over McFadden, but does he have enough to crack through a very tough top collection of talent. I’m not sure how much more effective Karchla would be here at this weight. Max R12. I’d give Carson a slight bump to low AA.
174- Romero has seized control of this weight and is currently ranked in the teens. He could slide up the rankings and threaten the top ten. Still need to see some elite level wins. This weight is probably max R12.
184- I think Hoffman ends up being the guy for the season. There definitely needs to be some improvement. This should be a weight where Gavin should be pushing for low AA status. Nothing we’ve seen this year suggests that him or Steiner are performing close to that capability. Right now this is a low productivity eight.
197- national champ.
285- low AA7/8.
If the Bucks put three in the finals..possible but a low percentage. That’s the bulk of the points. Singletary is your next highest scorer. We have lots of R12 talent/ results early in this season. We can get third without pulling RSs. Keep Decatur and Karchla in RS. I’d even go as far as saying RS Enchemendia, or maybe the coaches are looking Ahead and assuming a further point drop off. Too many unknowns
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Discussion Topic: "Nothing Off the Table" Line-up March 2020
Jack Muni added to this discussion on November 20, 2019
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I vote to RS the freshmen. Luke, Kollin and possibly Sasso are the only guys I see that might vie for titles, and they are not locks. The rest of the team just isn't good enough right now to risk pulling RS. And if Enchemendia isn't a 157 guy now, he'll get manhandled by stronger opponents. Let him grow and get comfortable with college life. Sasso seems like a guy who won't beat everyone he wrestles, but there isn't anyone he can't beat on any given day, if that makes any sense.
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Discussion Topic: "Nothing Off the Table" Line-up March 2020
Don Bork added to this discussion on November 20, 2019
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I would agree that we stick with the plan to redshirt Karchla. I would also redshirt Echemendia rather than putting him in the lineup at a less than ideal weight or risk pushing someone else to a less than ideal weight. I also think if Decatur could make 125 he would already be there. We have multiple kids in the lineup that were considered good recruits coming in but are younger. Namely Kinner, Smith, Romero and Hoffman. Let’s find out what they can do. Coaches need to develop the talent we have and then determine a path forward based on achieved results.
Let’s let Luke stay at 141, he’s earned the right based on performance to choose his weight. Hayes can come back to fill 157 once he is healthy.
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Discussion Topic: "Nothing Off the Table" Line-up March 2020
Patrick Niemann added to this discussion on November 20, 2019
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Red Shirt Decateur, Karch, and Echemendia. Load up for the next four years and try to get 2 more titles out of this talent.
I will say, with TR running this show, I do not see this happening. But, He did RS NT, BJ and MJ so there is precedent.
The future looks very bright for the Buckeyes, I would not mind seeing a drop off this season in order to see a run of multiple titles in the next 4-5 years. And by drop off, I would be shocked if we didn't land in the top 5 in our "down" year. A great time to be a Buckeye Wrestling fan!!!!
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Discussion Topic: "Nothing Off the Table" Line-up March 2020
Rex Holman added to this discussion on November 20, 2019
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I like Smith at 174 and Romero at 184 next year. I think both having made the weight below puts them at a disadvantage towards medaling this year. I have both as 6-12 finishes based on performance so far. Top 5 finish with existing plan in place is still excellent; but still have to get most out of the guys to achieve that level.
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Discussion Topic: "Nothing Off the Table" Line-up March 2020
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on November 20, 2019
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Quote from Patrick Niemann's post:
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"Red Shirt Decateur, Karch, and Echemendia. Load up for the next four years and try to get 2 more titles out of this talent.
I will say, with TR running this show, I do not see this happening. But, He did RS NT, BJ and MJ so there is precedent.
The future looks very bright for the Buckeyes, I would not mind seeing a drop off this season in order to see a run of multiple titles in the next 4-5 years. And by drop off, I would be shocked if we didn't land in the top 5 in our "down" year. A great time to be a Buckeye Wrestling fan!!!!"
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Your hatred for the Buckeyes shines through with every post. You should have just come out it - "Fire Tom Ryan"!
Oh, and that cyber-jab at Sasso "hopefully being a national qualifier" shows what kind of human being you really are!
ps: Hope to see you Friday night. #GoCruisers
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Discussion Topic: "Nothing Off the Table" Line-up March 2020
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on November 20, 2019
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Quote from Rex Holman's post:
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"I like Smith at 174 and Romero at 184 next year. I think both having made the weight below puts them at a disadvantage towards medaling this year. I have both as 6-12 finishes based on performance so far. Top 5 finish with existing plan in place is still excellent; but still have to get most out of the guys to achieve that level."
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As usual, Rex makes sense.
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Discussion Topic: "Nothing Off the Table" Line-up March 2020
Brian Mathews added to this discussion on November 22, 2019
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Quote from Jared Ball's post:
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"I really don’t see Decatur being able to make 125 and still maintain any sense of energy.
Keep Decatur and Karchla in RS. I’d even go as far as saying RS Enchemendia, or maybe the coaches are looking Ahead and assuming a further point drop off. "
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Agreed--and I have not been on the "redshirt every freshman that may not be 100% ready" bus, either.
The fact of the matter is that some guys are worth redshirting and some guys aren't. Decatur/Kharchla/Echemendia I think are the former.
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Discussion Topic: "Nothing Off the Table" Line-up March 2020
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on November 22, 2019
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Quote from Brian Mathews's post:
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"
Agreed--and I have not been on the "redshirt every freshman that may not be 100% ready" bus, either.
The fact of the matter is that some guys are worth redshirting and some guys aren't. Decatur/Kharchla/Echemendia I think are the former."
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I oftentimes agree with this sentiment. However, in the back of my brain, I can't help but think all will be better in year five.
I wonder if all are chasing 4xer status, be it AA or NC.
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Discussion Topic: "Nothing Off the Table" Line-up March 2020
Brian Mathews added to this discussion on November 22, 2019
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Quote from Mark Niemann's post:
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"I oftentimes agree with this sentiment. However, in the back of my brain, I can't help but think all will be better in year five.
I wonder if all are chasing 4xer status, be it AA or NC."
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You're just thinking about the individuals more than the team. Nothing wrong with that.
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Discussion Topic: "Nothing Off the Table" Line-up March 2020
Scott Nicola added to this discussion on November 23, 2019
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Quote from Brian Mathews's post:
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"
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Quote from Jared Ball's post:
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"I really don’t see Decatur being able to make 125 and still maintain any sense of energy.
Keep Decatur and Karchla in RS. I’d even go as far as saying RS Enchemendia, or maybe the coaches are looking Ahead and assuming a further point drop off. "
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Agreed--and I have not been on the "redshirt every freshman that may not be 100% ready" bus, either.
The fact of the matter is that some guys are worth redshirting and some guys aren't. Decatur/Kharchla/Echemendia I think are the former."
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I think who we have in the lineup now may impact the thinking as well. Smith's win over McFadden was huge and puts him squarely in the discussion for AA (if he wasn't already). While Karchla would likely be a slight upgrade not enough to pull the shirt. Kinner doesn't look quite ready to AA IMO, but we don't know if Decatur would either at the very deep 133. Plus Decatur seems tailor made for a rs with questions about his mat wrestling. Echemendia does not look like a true 157 and were pretty set at 141/149 presently. Let the guy develop his mat wrestling and adjust to college life and he could end up being special, throw him to the wolves too soon and it could be a disaster. Finally, I am 100% against the Pletcher to 133 talk. The guy has looked the best he ever has at 141 and I believe will win an NCAA title. It's clear he has more energy and offense at 141. Why drop to a weight that's less than ideal and has one of the best lb for lb guys in the country waiting?
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Discussion Topic: "Nothing Off the Table" Line-up March 2020
Jared Ball added to this discussion on November 24, 2019
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Virginia Tech followed up their dual victory with a clunker of a performance at the Navy classic. They were heads and tails the best team in attendance. McFadden and Bolen won it, and the heavyweight finished 2nd. No one else finished higher than fourth. Shakur Laney from Ohio had a solid tourney at 141 including a victory over Mitch Moore. Several of the guys VT won matches with against the Bucks didn’t even place in a diminished field.
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Discussion Topic: "Nothing Off the Table" Line-up March 2020
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on November 24, 2019
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Jared: what about Brent Moore???
EDIT: He lost to Kolina (Bucknell) by 5-4 decision. In the QF.
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Discussion Topic: "Nothing Off the Table" Line-up March 2020
Jared Ball added to this discussion on November 24, 2019
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He finished fifth. The 125, 133, 141, 149, 157, and 174 all Finished lower than seed
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