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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Jason L. Jackson added to this discussion on August 10, 2020
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If the rumors are true and the B1G cancels the football season, what are the chances there is a wrestling season? I would guess that it is the same chances that a vaccine is created in time for wrestling season to start, but who knows what that is. I'm guessing that we don't see any college sports in 2020-2021.
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Jim Behrens added to this discussion on August 10, 2020
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My guess is slim to none.
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Freddy Carr added to this discussion on August 10, 2020
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Sad day for college athletics. Those whose livelihoods revolve around non-revenue sports especially must be gravely concerned.
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Rob Wagner added to this discussion on August 10, 2020
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Super crummy day to be a college sports fan. All we can do is sit back and watch, wait.....Hope.
I also believe this year's wrestling season is in serious doubt; what also concerns me is that with no revenue coming in for college sports, especially football, if programs are going to continue cutting sports which would obviously put wrestling in danger at many universities.
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Jack Muni added to this discussion on August 11, 2020
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Just by the nature of the sport, extremely close contact with your opponent, I was having doubts about a season, short of coming up with a vaccine. Even if a vaccine is approved, they said the most vulnerable would be the first to get a shot. I would think a healthy twenty year old kid would be low on the priority list. I guess luckily for the Bucs, most of their top guys are underclassmen (Echemendia, Kharchla, Sasso, Romero).
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Jim Behrens added to this discussion on August 11, 2020
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Quote from Freddy Carr's post:
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"Sad day for college athletics. Those whose livelihoods revolve around non-revenue sports especially must be gravely concerned."
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Even the “non revenue” sports make money for the university through tuition, donations, etc. (the term revenue sport is misleading)
The so called non-revenue sports are typically profitable once you look at the total picture. Wrestling teams have 30-40 athletes and only 10 scholarships (or zero in D3). That means they gain 20-30 students paying full price who wouldn’t otherwise attend. This is the business model for D2 & D3. Colleges aren’t dumb and the cost of sponsoring sports is usually more than recouped by the school.
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Ben Golden added to this discussion on August 11, 2020
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Jim: I don't know that it's accurate to assume the 20-30 non-scholarship wrestlers would not attend college if it weren't for wrestling. Wrestling is probably not the primary motivation for many of those athletes--which is why it's pretty common for walk ons to drop off the team after a year or two.
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Jim Behrens added to this discussion on August 11, 2020
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Quote from Ben Golden's post:
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"Jim: I don't know that it's accurate to assume the 20-30 non-scholarship wrestlers would not attend college if it weren't for wrestling. Wrestling is probably not the primary motivation for many of those athletes--which is why it's pretty common for walk ons to drop off the team after a year or two."
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I would say that I worded that poorly. I meant that they might not be attending THAT college. They could go anywhere.
Having been in that position myself, as a runner and not a wrestler, I know what it means to drop off. I came the realization that my time has a value and that if I wasn't getting "something" out of it, I had other things to do.
My main point is that you have students paying to attend. The college is making money from them.
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Brian Nicola added to this discussion on August 11, 2020
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So, here's my take.
I think we have a HS season, at some point, but I suspect it will look vastly different. I am a fan of being innovative and not worrying about tradition this year. Get something in. I believe HS sports will rally quick after the pandemic.
Regarding colleges, the big school sports model is broken. This is not new, but it finally caught up. I actually think the non-revenue sports will undergo a major shift if football cancels. I think wrestling will continue to grow and THRIVE at D3 and NAIA schools, where tuition and enrollment drives the bus. This, of course, eliminates scholarships and larger coaches salaries, but if this is the option, kids will still go there to wrestle.
Examine the women's college model, similar (but they have schollies). Schools like King University and Campbellsville (find them on a map) have many world team members and olympians as alumni and even in the room. Wrestlers will find a mat and a team, but paying their way becomes a harsh reality. A sucky one, but reality.
I think many of the highly paid coaches deserve every penny they get. That's not the point. However, if they had to coach at a smaller school, the love for the sport still exists. If the head coach made 85K, that's not D1 money, but it's a reasonable wage, I think you'd see a lot of the top guys stay in the game. They coach. They lead.
I don't think college wrestling will die, but I do think it will shift. I wish it wasn't like this, but I think we're on the cusp.
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on August 11, 2020
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D1 Wrestling season is in trouble but it would help if each conference's coaches got together and developed a plan for dual meets. Have a short dual season, a conference meet and try to have an NCAA tourney all in two months. Do not have anyone attending the meets but televise the matches via Flo, BTN, etc....and beg your fan base to buy tickets. I'd certainly pay $100 bucks for a pass to watch all matches...I'd actually pay more. Pool the money and offer a payment to each athletic department. Smarter folks than me have hopefully already started this process. My hope would be to get 100K wrestling fans to spend $100 and generate at least 10 million. I don't think that's enough but it's a start.
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Bruce Andrews added to this discussion on August 11, 2020
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on August 11, 2020
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heres a growth solution being ignored. ive written about Kent Bailo's easy and innovative ideas in AWN. LOL, no one must read my column because i think coach Bailo has hit on something. Excerpt:
Best For Girls, Freestyle Or Folkstyle?
Bailo provided me with some thought provoking ideas for college women’s wrestling. Especially the idea that name colleges like Penn State, Oklahoma State, Iowa and Ohio State might consider forming women’s FOLKSTYLE wrestling teams to complement the men’s. This is one to ponder, good reasons exist, read on.
Kent Bailo believes “Girls in college should absolutely wrestle folkstyle. Why? Several reasons; to start, it would be much easier for college administrators to implement since knowledgeable coaches are available, girls coming into college wrestling from all 18 states that sanction girls wrestling wrestle folkstyle already. Plenty of knowledgeable referees, most wrestling fans in this country prefer folkstyle. Why? Because they know it and understand it. Ever attend a college women’s dual meet? Me neither.”
“BUT IF THE WOMEN preceded the Ohio State-Penn State match they’d have huge audiences catch at least half of the meet and be impressed enough to show up earlier next time.”
“Same ref, same mat same rules, easy. College administrators like money and easy. This would sure help with Title IX issues. We as a country would get much better at international level, not because of freestyle or folkstyle; we’d be better and are getting better because bigger numbers at the high school mean greater numbers at the college, hence a larger talent pool. Bigger talent pool means more and better athletes.”
“Ask the high school girls (the potential collegians) which style they like. The majority would say folkstyle. Why? Because they are familiar with it. Ask high school boys which they’d rather do and most would say folkstyle because they are familiar with it. And they have no choice which style it will be in college, the NCAA will never change.
I think girls would like to have the same success as men wrestlers, same exposure, etc. The NCAA Finals Division 1 outdraws Final X and the US senior nationals by a lot. Simple, easy, more.”
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on August 11, 2020
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"Regarding colleges, the big school sports model is broken. This is not new, but it finally caught up. I actually think the non-revenue sports will undergo a major shift if football cancels. I think wrestling will continue to grow and THRIVE at D3 and NAIA schools, where tuition and enrollment drives the bus. This, of course, eliminates scholarships and larger coaches salaries, but if this is the option, kids will still go there to wrestle."
Very fine post, Brian Nicola. I thought all your comments had merit but you nailed our sport with this paragraph. Wrestling will survive and thrive because it will adapt well. Wrestlers will always be wrestlers and will find somewhere to go and compete.
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on August 11, 2020
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"Survive"? sure, but in what shape? is that our meager goal?
i thought prosper was the goal. More participation, more schools, more scholarships, more recognition. ...with all due respect to Div 2 & 3, Div I is where the excitement is. Wrestling, as well as football and athletic budgets, has suffered a devastating blow.
Whose kiding Who, Spring football wont happen and if it does will be in shambles.
Will Ohio deep six another wrestling state tournament? Just shut everything down, hows that working and how long can it go on? let's stop wringing our hands, life has risk. Let the parents and players decide whether i'm in or out.
excerpt May issue Am Wr News:
Tom Borrelli
Coach Tom Borrelli of Central Michigan is concerned most about the fate of our college teams and its trickledown effect. “On the college level, I can see this affecting the smaller programs on the DI level significantly.
Without even thinking about the loss of football revenue, we might already see reductions in staff, scholarships, budgets for Olympic Sports and in some cases the loss of programs. If we don’t have a normal football season it will be even worse!”
“This will all trickle down to high school and youth sport levels. Fewer or less funded college programs gives younger athletes and their parents less motivation to become involved in these Olympic sports. This all affects high school coaching decisions and club coaching funding.”
Mitch Hancock
Mitch Hancock is head coach and Dean of Students at No. 5 ranked Detroit Catholic Central, he told me, “I am concerned with the impact this could have on college wrestling, especially with those schools outside of the Big 10, PAC 12, and Big 12.
Considering Old Dominion just cut wrestling, this could have a domino effect on other schools within the country that sponsor wrestling, especially if fan attendance at football games for the 2020 season is impacted. If NCAA football is impacted, wrestling will definitely face some difficult times. With donations and gifts limited or down, which will cause difficulty in building endowment funds.”
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on August 12, 2020
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Bob: We all share your sentiments but saying "let the athletes and parents decide if they want to take the risk" assumes that this illness won't affect others. In fact it will. It spreads like wildfire. It can have long term health impacts. And it can kill.
We could have been in much better shape by now if everyone would have listened to epidemiological experts and followed their advice. They haven't been 100% accurate but they had a much better idea how to contain it than non medical experts in politics.
Now, Covid is everywhere. It's not going to go away. And it will continue to negatively impact the economy and our health. Even when there is a vaccine, it's not going to be 100% effective. We need everyone to understand that the simple act of wearing a mask in public and avoiding crowds is the only proven method of flattening the virus. Too many people won't do it so it keeps recurring.
I always return to the proliferation of skin issues in wrestling as an example of how to do things the right way. What if 30% of wrestling programs had refused to take action? What if we didn't do skin checks before matches? We never would have gotten it under control. And the programs which did things the right way would have been as negatively impacted as the rest.
This is nuts. We could have had a football and wrestling season. Instead we are getting worse. Sad.
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