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Discussion Topic: Ethan Smith's Semi
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 20, 2021
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Many years ago, I watched Keaton Anderson wrestle Gray Maynard in the state finals. Maynard was better on his feet and winning 4-1 at the end of the first period. The St Eds coaches set aside logic and put Maynard down. Anderson had the best cradle in Ohio. Maynard got ridden and turned. Then in the third, he got reversed and turned and ridden. Final score 9-4 Anderson.
Maybe Smith wins or maybe he loses if he takes neutral in the second. Maybe he wins or loses if he cuts Weitzel to start the third. But getting ridden all second period and then getting reversed and ridden....that's inexcusably dumb. Especially in a match where you've scored one TD in the first and almost a second.
This is D1 wrestling and the coaches needed to put Smith in the best possible position to win. They didn't. I have found the Buckeye decisions confounding all season as it relates to match choices. They're like the scout in Moneyball who's so set in his ways that he can't possibly understand analytics. SMH.
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Discussion Topic: Ethan Smith's Semi
Rex Holman added to this discussion on March 20, 2021
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You mean to say that you pretty much saw this same pattern happen 30 years ago. It's almost as if history repeats itself.
Once you've seen thousands of minutes of wrestling, you can start connecting the dots and making solid inferences. Kudos Hank.
The coaches that pay attention to detail like that are in best position to set forth a strategy that might make a difference in the match.
I have been impressed with Ethan's technical skill acquisition, so credit there. But, only part of the equation.
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Discussion Topic: Ethan Smith's Semi
Jared Ball added to this discussion on March 20, 2021
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This Keith Gavin coached Pitt team is nails in the top position. At no point did Ethan look even close to getting out. As maddening as that is I think more credit needs to go to the elite top guy. Hindsight being 20/20 this match came down to one scramble position that Ethan lost. I’m not sure where the coaches could’ve changed things for Ethan. Outside of keeping him neutral in the 2nd period it ultimately appeared to be a failure to execute.
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Discussion Topic: Ethan Smith's Semi
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 20, 2021
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"Outside of keeping him neutral in the 2nd period it ultimately appeared to be a failure to execute."
Isn't that the possible difference between winning and losing? Incidentally, if Ethan chooses neutral in the second and gets taken down and ridden, I'm not saying a word.
Thank you Rex.
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Discussion Topic: Ethan Smith's Semi
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on March 20, 2021
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Quote from Jared Ball's post:
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"This Keith Gavin coached Pitt team is nails in the top position. At no point did Ethan look even close to getting out. As maddening as that is I think more credit needs to go to the elite top guy. Hindsight being 20/20 this match came down to one scramble position that Ethan lost. I’m not sure where the coaches could’ve changed things for Ethan. Outside of keeping him neutral in the 2nd period it ultimately appeared to be a failure to execute."
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I'm not sold that this is hindsight (or Monday morning QBing). As the period drew to an end, I knew the correct choice given in this scenario.
Also, I'm interested in watching more PITT kids grow under Gavin. He truly seems to have a knack for positioning and development. (I'd think having Been on staff helps too. #OneBadMan)
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Discussion Topic: Ethan Smith's Semi
Liam Bateman added to this discussion on March 20, 2021
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The young man had just beaten O’toole who’s bread and butter is mat wrestling. The coaches did not do there homework. Smith should have never chosen down, it happens every year. It’s frustrating to watch our student athletes be put in this position. OSU needs to fix the problem. Know your athlete.
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Discussion Topic: Ethan Smith's Semi
Mike Stann added to this discussion on March 20, 2021
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I have wondered all season long as guys like Malik who have a certain skill set are asked do something they obviously need work on. I put it to it's dual season and let's work on those skills. but in the tournament, imo, you have to maximize your chances to win. I have actually seen the Pitt kid numerous times this year and that is his mo, don't get taken down and then ride the living heck out of them. I was with Mark when second period came, go neutral, you are ahead, you appear to be superior in the neutral position why play into a guy's strength. I mean if you were up 2-1 on Spencer would you take down in the second?
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Discussion Topic: Ethan Smith's Semi
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 20, 2021
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Quote from Mike Stann's post:
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"I have wondered all season long as guys like Malik who have a certain skill set are asked do something they obviously need work on. I put it to it's dual season and let's work on those skills. but in the tournament, imo, you have to maximize your chances to win. I have actually seen the Pitt kid numerous times this year and that is his mo, don't get taken down and then ride the living heck out of them. I was with Mark when second period came, go neutral, you are ahead, you appear to be superior in the neutral position why play into a guy's strength. I mean if you were up 2-1 on Spencer would you take down in the second?"
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I think you're spot on with every comment.
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Discussion Topic: Ethan Smith's Semi
Freddy Carr added to this discussion on March 20, 2021
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Smith gets reversed and ridden again. This time by Wittlake.
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Discussion Topic: Ethan Smith's Semi
Jared Ball added to this discussion on March 20, 2021
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Yeah...I’ll rescind my comment. The mind boggling decision in the consi semis to put Smith back down in third just made my head explode. This one is on the coaches
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Discussion Topic: Ethan Smith's Semi
Jeff Fortman added to this discussion on March 20, 2021
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Tough match to watch. Bottom really killed him. I'll be honest though, after the initial take down, i'm not sure he wins that match anyway.
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Discussion Topic: Ethan Smith's Semi
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on March 20, 2021
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Quote from Freddy Carr's post:
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"Smith gets reversed and ridden again. This time by Wittlake."
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That is the 3x in this tournament he has given up a R in the same position. I put that on him but going down in the 3rd was another dumb decision. I wonder if the escape at the end of the 2nd plays into the decision to go down in 3rd?
I also would like to know who makes the call? Do they ask Smith do you want to be and takes down?
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Discussion Topic: Ethan Smith's Semi
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on March 22, 2021
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This is not a Smith or OSU comment, but I do think there is a belief that choosing down is just what you do. So you do it.
Teams need to get past this. If you struggle in a position, don't put yourself there. Likewise, if your opponent is excellent in a position, don't put him there.
Seems pretty easy and logical. Yet I see it all the time, kids winning on their feet then selecting down because that's what you're supposed to do, then losing.
This is even more important with the current rule set that does not require the top man to try any move whatsoever while riding.
I recall a few years back Willy Saylor talked often about this subject. I really believe it's just stubborn, old-school mentality.
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Discussion Topic: Ethan Smith's Semi
Mike Stann added to this discussion on March 22, 2021
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Quote from Ethan Moore's post:
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"This is not a Smith or OSU comment, but I do think there is a belief that choosing down is just what you do. So you do it.
Teams need to get past this. If you struggle in a position, don't put yourself there. Likewise, if your opponent is excellent in a position, don't put him there.
Seems pretty easy and logical. Yet I see it all the time, kids winning on their feet then selecting down because that's what you're supposed to do, then losing.
This is even more important with the current rule set that does not require the top man to try any move whatsoever while riding.
I recall a few years back Willy Saylor talked often about this subject. I really believe it's just stubborn, old-school mentality."
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I think in many cases it's because coaches can't stand the thought of giving up a point. imo goes back to the old saw "if you want it bad enough" there's a point to be had. We know that "wanting it bad enough" doesn't always work especially if your opponent is a beast on top. I agree old school.
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Discussion Topic: Ethan Smith's Semi
Don Bork added to this discussion on March 22, 2021
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And throughout the course of the season, choose down, but the wrestler and even more so, the coach, needs to learn from their experiences. When tournament time comes around at seasons end, make the educated decision. It shouldn’t be automatic at this point.
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