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Discussion Topic: Ohio RTC: Is the Plane Going Down?
Ben Golden added to this discussion on March 23, 2021
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Folks I have been TRYING to keep my head cool over the last year about the eroding roster at the RTC, but it's become impossible. Someone please try and convince me the plane ain't going down.
As Jared Ball noted on the Myles Martin Departure thread, a decade ago, Ohio RTC was the top shop. Probably even more recently than that. Heck in 2018 they had 2 world champs on the roster.
I wonder why this has happened? I can identify three potential causes:
1) Lack of funds. I have no idea if this is a reality or not at the Ohio RTC. However there have been a lot of guys come off the books and not many come in to replace them, and certainly none that have comparable results. I don't count J'Den Cox because he is part time at best.
2) Lack of hustle to bring in free agents and/or retain current members of the roster. At one point people made the argument that since more schools have RTC's now, people want to stay at their home school and not move around as much. I don't buy that excuse today. Plenty of guys have moved around: Nahshon Garrett, Jordan Oliver, J'Den Cox, Jordan Burroughs, James Green, Isaiah Martinez, Thomas Gilman, Mark Hall, Alex Dieringer, Dom Bradley. Not to mention all the guys that have left Ohio RTC. I understand some guys have reasons that may transcend the training environment (close to home, grad school, etc), but the trend is too strong to ignore.
3) Lack of confidence in the coaches and/or training environment. If this is in fact the athletes' perception, I do not agree with it personally. The coaches and environment have produced many champions and contenders at every level. Has the situation become stale? Do today's athletes have a different perception than me? I don't know. Obviously their perception means something and mine means... nothing.
Any other ideas what's going on here? No facts or informed opinions please--only looking for ignorant opining and whining. Kidding.
- Cynical in Cincinnati
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Discussion Topic: Ohio RTC: Is the Plane Going Down?
Drew Taylor added to this discussion on March 23, 2021
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I do wonder if financial donors who in the past funded RTC athlete salaries have instead directed their contributions to the Covelli Center. There's only so many donors to fund these various projects.
Will Kollin Moore be next to leave? Snyder and Myles are gone and the college roster is absent of any big men capable of pushing Moore.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio RTC: Is the Plane Going Down?
Shawn Andrews added to this discussion on March 23, 2021
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IMO the departure of Lou Rosselli to Oklahoma is the biggest variable in this equation
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Discussion Topic: Ohio RTC: Is the Plane Going Down?
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on March 23, 2021
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Much to mull over on this one. Give me some time.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio RTC: Is the Plane Going Down?
Jeff Reid added to this discussion on March 23, 2021
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Quote from Shawn Andrews's post:
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"IMO the departure of Lou Rosselli to Oklahoma is the biggest variable in this equation"
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Agree, and you can see it in the decline of Snyder. Once Rosselli left, his career started going down hill.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio RTC: Is the Plane Going Down?
Drew Taylor added to this discussion on March 23, 2021
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Shawn: I don't know the answer. But worth noting Lou was replaced by Tervel, who has received high praise from many OSU wrestlers, some who've gone on to compete for him at the RTC.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio RTC: Is the Plane Going Down?
Freddy Carr added to this discussion on March 23, 2021
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It was a good run. The castle started falling into the sea when Rosselli and Snyder left.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio RTC: Is the Plane Going Down?
Shawn Andrews added to this discussion on March 24, 2021
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Quote from Drew Taylor's post:
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"Shawn: I don't know the answer. But worth noting Lou was replaced by Tervel, who has received high praise from many OSU wrestlers, some who've gone on to compete for him at the RTC."
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Tervel is an amazing coach, I learn something from him every time I hear him speak. That being said I think Lou is one of the best freestyle coaches in the world. I am not saying that Lou's departure is the only contributing factor. It has been mentioned in this thread all of the other changes going on. (number of RTCs around the country, change in practice partners etc).
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Discussion Topic: Ohio RTC: Is the Plane Going Down?
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 24, 2021
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Worth noting that the Ohio RTC just had two champs in their latest comp--Kollin Moore and Amar Dhesi. Dhesi is a canadian citizen so his odds of making a world team are better than, say, Mason Parris.
I'm less convinced that the plane has gone down than this is a bit of ebb and flow. Bucks had an incredible group of recruits over a short period of time. But there seems to be a fair amount of movement in general from RTC to RTC as guys sometimes decide that a change of venue might be necessary to make improvements.
Example, Myles Martin is an excellent wrestler who has continued to excel as a post collegiate. Personally, I've always found him to be one of the most exciting guys to watch. But he is at a very deep weight. How do you get ahead of Mark Hall and Zahid Valencia...not to mention David Taylor? Well, maybe you try a change of scenery.
Conversely Kollin Moore looks fantastic. He's had the occasional tough loss but he learns from them and moves forward. He's still in Columbus. He's getting coached by Tervel and Logan. I'd be pretty happy to have those two training me. Amar Dhesi seems to be improving as well.
The Bucks are a couple good recruiting cycles from being back on track. And if Dhesi and Moore continue to win, well, there are undoubtedly other wrestlers at other RTC's who will likely decide to move to Columbus.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio RTC: Is the Plane Going Down?
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 24, 2021
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Quote from Jeff Reid's post:
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"
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Quote from Shawn Andrews's post:
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"IMO the departure of Lou Rosselli to Oklahoma is the biggest variable in this equation"
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Agree, and you can see it in the decline of Snyder. Once Rosselli left, his career started going down hill."
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Maybe. But Snyder suddenly had to contend with a couple real studs at his weight. When the best Russian moves into your weight, it's a problem. And Snyder has been at it for awhile. Certain guys have developed strategies for dealing with his style.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio RTC: Is the Plane Going Down?
Jared Ball added to this discussion on March 24, 2021
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I saw a post the other day that asked how long most guys stay on the Senior Circuit following their NCAA careers. The average guy doesn’t even make it a full Olympic quad. That being said, it’s hard to ask a guy who has already trained for five or six years to stick around for the rest of a decade if not longer. That’s not sustainable, even at PSU. I think Hank brings up a very valid point.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio RTC: Is the Plane Going Down?
Bill Splete added to this discussion on March 24, 2021
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It is a clear point when things changed and it's when you lost Lou, and in his place, you have a heavyweight that coaches as if he is giving a dissertation on quantum physics when describing positions and you have a world champ whose defense must not be translated and his offense, well... it works for him, and have seen little of his top positions. I do believe they will be great coaches someday, it's not today. These guys need the seasoned knowledge and guidance that experience is. Belaglozav tech translates, Lou's tech translates, Cunningham's tech translates. You can keep the two but you must add a Lou type leader that feels what a wrestler needs, in training and competition. It's an opinion and have no knowledge of what is going on inside the program and could be speaking out of term. Jaggers, he can go... I have seen and heard enough and don't agree with what he says and does. His wrestling is at the level it needs to be but that isn't the problem.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio RTC: Is the Plane Going Down?
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on March 24, 2021
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Quote from Shawn Andrews's post:
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"
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Quote from Drew Taylor's post:
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"Shawn: I don't know the answer. But worth noting Lou was replaced by Tervel, who has received high praise from many OSU wrestlers, some who've gone on to compete for him at the RTC."
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Tervel is an amazing coach, I learn something from him every time I hear him speak. That being said I think Lou is one of the best freestyle coaches in the world. I am not saying that Lou's departure is the only contributing factor. It has been mentioned in this thread all of the other changes going on. (number of RTCs around the country, change in practice partners etc)."
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Tervel is leaving as well and heading home just like Myles
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Discussion Topic: Ohio RTC: Is the Plane Going Down?
John Joyce added to this discussion on March 24, 2021
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Quote from Bill Splete's post:
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"It is a clear point when things changed and it's when you lost Lou, and in his place, you have a heavyweight that coaches as if he is giving a dissertation on quantum physics when describing positions and you have a world champ whose defense must not be translated and his offense, well... it works for him, and have seen little of his top positions. I do believe they will be great coaches someday, it's not today. These guys need the seasoned knowledge and guidance that experience is. Belaglozav tech translates, Lou's tech translates, Cunningham's tech translates. You can keep the two but you must add a Lou type leader that feels what a wrestler needs, in training and competition. It's an opinion and have no knowledge of what is going on inside the program and could be speaking out of term. Jaggers, he can go... I have seen and heard enough and don't agree with what he says and does. His wrestling is at the level it needs to be but that isn't the problem."
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Jaggers seems to be doing a damn good job with Sasso to me.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio RTC: Is the Plane Going Down?
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on March 24, 2021
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I know Lou is great coach but he has done anything at Oklahoma since arriving. They were co champs this year but outside of that not sure what he has done. I think he has had 3-4 AA since taking over in 2016. There 197 had a breakout tournament but Demas under performed. Maybe I’m missing something but I don’t see it.
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