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Discussion Topic: Bucks 2022-2023
Brian Mathews added to this discussion on March 25, 2022
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Quote from Luke Moore's post:
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"They need to put the best wrestlers on the mat next year. And personally, I think this needs to be the philosophy every year. Anymore, kids come out of high school battle tested and ready to compete at the next level. My redshirt year helped me immensely, because, frankly, I wasn't very good. Guys like Mendez, Feldman, etc. need to wrestle if they are the best in the room. Especially if you have Sasso, Smith, Romero, for one more year. They can't beat PSU, but they can get a trophy!"
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I understand what you're saying, but re-read your last sentence. "They can't beat PSU."
And... why? Penn State is using red shirts grey shirts, and any other shirts they can get their hands on. 14 of their last 16 national champs used a redshirt or greyshirt year. Some even used both. Those that didn't (RBY & Hall) were surefire AA's out of the gate, and stepping into lineups that were competing for national titles.
Ohio State is not competing for a national title next year. This is the class that you redshirt, and keep together on the same timeline. For the classes that follow, the decision making process will be different.
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Discussion Topic: Bucks 2022-2023
Don Bork added to this discussion on March 25, 2022
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Some folks are wanting to go all in next year to take advantage of having guys like Smith and Romero in the lineup for their final season. It would also give them the additional season with Sasso and Karchla. To redshirt the incoming freshmen would give them an additional year to mature and grow at the collegiate level. This would certainly be in their best interest. It seems like trying to get them into the lineup immediately shows a lack of trust in the current coaching staff to be able to continue recruiting successfully over the next several years, and I understand that. After all, I don’t think to many would argue that the level of achievement TOSU has reached has fallen off from several years ago. In my estimation this is due to, not only recruiting misses and miscalculations but to a lack of development as well.
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Discussion Topic: Bucks 2022-2023
Mike Stann added to this discussion on March 25, 2022
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Quote from Don Bork's post:
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"Some folks are wanting to go all in next year to take advantage of having guys like Smith and Romero in the lineup for their final season. It would also give them the additional season with Sasso and Karchla. To redshirt the incoming freshmen would give them an additional year to mature and grow at the collegiate level. This would certainly be in their best interest. It seems like trying to get them into the lineup immediately shows a lack of trust in the current coaching staff to be able to continue recruiting successfully over the next several years, and I understand that. After all, I don’t think to many would argue that the level of achievement TOSU has reached has fallen off from several years ago. In my estimation this is due to, not only recruiting misses and miscalculations but to a lack of development as well."
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well let's see. 7 years ago a national championship. three years ago a third straight runner-up trophy. then a lost year to covid. then a top ten finish. lost trust to recruit successfully after one off year, really? just signed maybe the best class ever this year. some folk need to wrap their head around the fact that there is Penn st and everyone else these last 11 years. Brands one championship one second. John smith 2 seconds. lack of development well what about Colin Moore, Kaleb Romero, Ethan Smith, Gavin Hoffman. There is only one Cael and I'm guessing he's not leaving Penn St.
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Discussion Topic: Bucks 2022-2023
Don Bork added to this discussion on March 25, 2022
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Mike, your historical review of past performance is accurate, and yes, we have regressed over the past seven years to this years 13th place finish with no one placing above 5th. I, to, hope for the Buckeyes will again become a top five team, but there is much work to do and in my estimation TOSU is still not a good mat wrestling team. When Tom Ryan came to Ohio State 14 years ago he said the goal was to have 10 AAs. We have not reached that goal, not close, and if we hope to win another Natty, that is likely what we will need.
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Discussion Topic: Bucks 2022-2023
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 26, 2022
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Just watched highlights of Jesse Mendez and Nick Feldman at the Dapper Dan. Flat out beasts.
Bucks have Brendan McCrone from Lake Catholic arriving next season. 2x state finalist and 2022 state champ in D2 at 120. Not the prettiest wrestler to watch but he's long and tough from the top position. No question that he's a project but it sure would be nice to see the Bucks do something with him. He has the frame to be a big 125.
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Discussion Topic: Bucks 2022-2023
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 26, 2022
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Just watched PA junior Vinny Kilkeary's state finals bout on Flo. He's a pleasure to watch. He looked half the size of his opponent but crushed him with well timed re-attacks and strategic offense. Could be a very nice 125 if he gets a bit bigger. The Bucks are also recruiting McGowan from Blair who's ranked #1.
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Discussion Topic: Bucks 2022-2023
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on March 26, 2022
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"Just watched PA junior Vinny Kilkeary's state finals bout on Flo. He's a pleasure to watch. He looked half the size of his opponent but crushed him with well timed re-attacks and strategic offense. Could be a very nice 125 if he gets a bit bigger. The Bucks are also recruiting McGowan from Blair who's ranked #1."
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The guy that Kilkeary beat 12-3 at state just beat #1 113 Joey Cruz at PA Wrestling Classic event.
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Discussion Topic: Bucks 2022-2023
Don Bork added to this discussion on March 26, 2022
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Next years class (bouzakis, Mendez, brown, geog, Shumate) has lots of talent and potential. 2023 is off to a good start with kilkeary and Welch. Hope we can get sonny Sasso as he seems to have lots of potential for growth. With Gonzales and Gallagher coming off redshirt it seems TOSU may be able to return to trophy level nationally in the next few years. Need to continue with strong classes of recruits and successfully develop that talent.
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Discussion Topic: Bucks 2022-2023
Doug Gainous added to this discussion on March 26, 2022
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I'm leary to say we're going to be "back in contention" with all these studs coming in. We've done this so many times with many blue chip recruits. I love the "Line-up projections" that never happen.
Recruiting is not the problem.
If history repeats itself two of these kids never make it on campus, one will transfer out and one will do well as freshman and then never reach the expectations we the fan's put on them after that.
The numbers Tom Ryan has put up look great until you look a little deeper into the expectations and failures.
I don't claim to have the answers I'm just venting my observations/opinions. One of them is bucks need new blood from another coaching tree on staff.
In the 20yr run Gable had at Iowa I think only 5 other coaches won an NCAA title in that timeframe. Maybe that's what we are up against with Cael.
All this being said, I'll have my Buckeye shirt on while I cus and cheer at the tv.
I am, and always will be, a fan. GO BUCKS!
....someone give me a 2027 "projected line-up"! haha. love this forum!
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Discussion Topic: Bucks 2022-2023
Jeff Fortman added to this discussion on March 26, 2022
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I really want to see Smith and Romero again, there is unfinished business there. Even if they don't compete for a national title, they are right up there with the best.
This was a down year that was compounded with a tough season from Sasso. Had he been in the finals i feel that OSU would be getting a little more credit, we just aren't used to seeing 1 or 2 of our guys compete for #1.
Let's see what Ryan will do with this incoming class before anyone wants to move him out. Lots of potential, sky is the limit.
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Discussion Topic: Bucks 2022-2023
Jeff Fortman added to this discussion on March 26, 2022
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I really want to see Smith and Romero again, there is unfinished business there. Even if they don't compete for a national title, they are right up there with the best.
This was a down year that was compounded with a tough season from Sasso. Had he been in the finals i feel that OSU would be getting a little more credit, we just aren't used to seeing 1 or 2 of our guys compete for #1.
Let's see what Ryan will do with this incoming class before anyone wants to move him out. Lots of potential, sky is the limit.
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Discussion Topic: Bucks 2022-2023
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on March 26, 2022
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Quote from Jeff Fortman's post:
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"I really want to see Smith and Romero again, there is unfinished business there. Even if they don't compete for a national title, they are right up there with the best.
This was a down year that was compounded with a tough season from Sasso. Had he been in the finals i feel that OSU would be getting a little more credit, we just aren't used to seeing 1 or 2 of our guys compete for #1.
Let's see what Ryan will do with this incoming class before anyone wants to move him out. Lots of potential, sky is the limit."
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Tough season for Sasso? I disagree he lost 4x to 2 kids and one of those guys has won 70+ and the other kid just has his number. Did he pin a lot of kid no but he beat everyone except for 2 guys.
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Discussion Topic: Bucks 2022-2023
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on March 26, 2022
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Quote from Jeff Fortman's post:
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"I really want to see Smith and Romero again, there is unfinished business there. Even if they don't compete for a national title, they are right up there with the best.
This was a down year that was compounded with a tough season from Sasso. Had he been in the finals i feel that OSU would be getting a little more credit, we just aren't used to seeing 1 or 2 of our guys compete for #1.
Let's see what Ryan will do with this incoming class before anyone wants to move him out. Lots of potential, sky is the limit."
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Tough season for Sasso? I disagree he lost 4x to 2 kids and one of those guys has won 70+ and the other kid just has his number. Did he pin a lot of kid no but he beat everyone except for 2 guys.
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Discussion Topic: Bucks 2022-2023
Jared Ball added to this discussion on March 27, 2022
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Flo has an eligibility remaining article out that tracks who could come back vs who is gone. Iowa and Michigan are gutted next year, and if the Bucks maintain status quo with this line up they return enough points to push for a low end team trophy. I think we also need to recall where these guys were at coming in as recruits. As I recall Malik was ranked 40 something on the big board. Ethan Smith was in the 30s. Kaleb was ranked in the teens, but at the time tankers were a little unclear on him because he didn’t wrestle a ton outside of the season. If we’re being honest, and if you count a blue chip as a top ten guy, we had have three that were starters this year, Sammy, Carson, and Gavin. Obviously there are never guarantees, but between Paddy, and all the incoming recruits we essentially would have half a line up of top five guys. Things are going to shift as long as Jay and Logan develop these guys. Based off the flo article here is where our returning guys would sit
125: Malik 1-2. All but one AA return, but Lee is coming back. Malik has multiple wins over several guys that are AA and rd of 12 caliber. I think size is less and issue than what’s between the ears. He’s the best we’ve got outside of a portal transfer, but I’m not sure we’d get anyone better. Biggest concern heading into 22-23. Without him the weight becomes essentially a forfeit in duals.
133: This weight loses 3/8 AAs. Not as deep as historically has been the case. I think Gonsalez is a solid option. He’ll be long and rangy. From what I saw he won multiple opens. Maybe only 1/2 loses, solid redshirt year.
141: this weight is all the way open next year. The top three finishers are gone, so are Micic, Eireman, and Chad Red. DD can make some noise here. He decked the 7th place Minnesota kid in the dual but then turned around and lost to him at Bigs. I’d also remind everyone that Decatur wrestled NCAA runner up Clarke in the dual in Columbus and lost in OTz. If memory serves he should have won that match. Bucks can score lots of points here next year.
149: Sammy is the 3rd best at this weight, regardless of how he finished. I can’t for the life of me understand how Gomez gets to his legs and finishes easier than Yanni. Sammy is a finalist threat point wise, but has to get his offense changed in order to win a title.
157: the champ graduates, but that’s it. Paddy wasn’t as dominant during his RS as I would’ve thought but that’s what that year is for. Probably tough to crack the top 8, but if he is as advertised then I think he’s probably round of 12 caliber.
165: Wick, Marinelli, and Wentzel all gone. Carson is an absolute threat. I’m betting his freestyle off season lands him on the world team. That’s his best style.
174: Ethan was a top six guy this year. Just didn’t mentally maintain during matches. Three big dogs are gone. Ethan should be top five to start the season. I’m more confident in him coming back than anyone else.
184: Amine and Venz gone. Like Smith I think this pushes Kaleb into the top five.
197: Two AA behind Gavin are gone. Maybe he wrestles with confidence and surprises everyone. Like Carson, I think Gavin is a better freestyler.
285: Mr Wonderful is a low AA once more.
The Bucks still lack finalist, which puts up the points. They will be a deep team and very tough in duals.
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Discussion Topic: Bucks 2022-2023
Brian Mathews added to this discussion on March 27, 2022
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Quote from Doug Gainous's post:
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"....someone give me a 2027 "projected line-up"! haha. love this forum!"
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Ask and you shall receive.
125) Kilkeary
133) McGowan / Blaze / Herring
141) Bouzakis
149) Mendez
157) Williams / Shapiro
165) Gallagher
174) Welsh
184) Geog
197) Shumate
285) Feldman
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