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Discussion Topic: NCAA Division I Brackets
John Joyce added to this discussion on March 10, 2023
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Quote from Bob Preusse's post:
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"
So WHO u beat doesnt matter?? im calling bullsheet on this criteria
also i interpret this phrase differently from u, i think head to head means just that, did Munoz & Romero meet head to head this season? these 2 hombres.
No, then no points to either guy. At Ironman the H to H criteria works this way. First there a pre-seed. If it is later revealed that #4 in the pre-seed beat #3 more recently then the Seeding Committee can bump #4 pre-seed Up and #3 Down. "Can" if other factors close. makes sense.
regardless, theres plenty off "bias" anyway u go, any system u use.. Example why is each factor a certain % ? why head to head 25% and won-loss 10% ? why not 20 & 15 ?"
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So think of the matrix as a point system where maximum is 100. The head to head 25% is did these two wrestlers meet and if so whoever won gets 25 points. If they didn’t meet, each gets 12.5 points. Win/loss percentage, who has the best win/loss percentage? That person gets 10 points, etc. for each criteria. Total points in the matrix wins the “head to head” matrix comparison. This matrix is applied for every wrestler against every other wrestler in the field. Does that make sense? So when I say “head to head” matrix wins to determine seed, I’m not talking about the 25% criteria inside the matrix, that is indeed did they wrestle and who won. I’m talking about how they use the matrix to determine seeds.
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Discussion Topic: NCAA Division I Brackets
John Joyce added to this discussion on March 10, 2023
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Munoz vs Romero
Head-to-head competition — 25 percent
Quality wins — 20 percent
Coaches Ranking — 15 percent
Results against common opponents — 10 percent
RPI — 10 percent
Qualifying event placement — 10 percent
Win % — 10 percent
-So head to head didn’t happen, each get 12.5 (12.5 Romero 12.5 Munoz)
-Quality wins is the most complex and it’s tiered. Points are given to both wrestlers based on the tier of their opponent that they beat. I don’t have it in me to dig through it but Munoz over Coleman is a tier 1 win (worth 6 points) and Romero doesn’t have any tier 1 wins. For arguments sake, let’s say Romero gets 14 and Munoz gets 6 (26.5 Romero 18.5 Munoz)
-Coaches Rank and RPI we don’t have the final rankings for either of these. Romero had them both mid Feb but that could have switched. Give both to Romero (51.5 Romero Romero 18.5 Munoz)
-Results against common opponents Lenny Pinto is the only different result, Romero won, Munoz lost. So 10 points Romero (61.5 Romero 18.5 Munoz)
-Qualifying Event Placement (Conference Tournament) goes to Munoz (61.5 Romero 28.5 Munoz)
-Win Percentage goes to Munoz (61.5 Romero 38.5 Munoz)
This one hinges on final coaches poll and RPI. If that flipped to Munoz, he wins the head to head matrix comparison. But even if Romero wins the head to head matrix comparison against Munoz (as he did in my application of it here), if Munoz won more of these comparisons against the field than Romero did (he did) Munoz gets a higher seed.
Hope that helps. Agains, not saying it’s right but it’s the method they currently use.
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Discussion Topic: NCAA Division I Brackets
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 11, 2023
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thanks John for making the effort and taking the time to explain a very complicated seeding system. .... coaches & fans are very sensitive about seeding, and very curious.
i wont pick at it since i assume the Committee tried to be fair and gave it a lot of thought. ..ive been there myself, u do your best but realize it has flaws. So, as Greg Urbas always told his kids (don't complain) "Just wrestle".
an aside, tell me how u r so familiar with its workings ?
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Discussion Topic: NCAA Division I Brackets
John Joyce added to this discussion on March 12, 2023
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Quote from Bob Preusse's post:
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"thanks John for making the effort and taking the time to explain a very complicated seeding system. .... coaches & fans are very sensitive about seeding, and very curious.
i wont pick at it since i assume the Committee tried to be fair and gave it a lot of thought. ..ive been there myself, u do your best but realize it has flaws. So, as Greg Urbas always told his kids (don't complain) "Just wrestle".
an aside, tell me how u r so familiar with its workings ?"
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I don’t know if the NCAA has explicitly released the criteria and matrix but I’m an uber nerd heavy into analytics for wrestling and FloWrestling has published the criteria as well as other individuals who have spent time in wrestling media that post regularly on Twitter and talk about these things. I take it on their authority that it is all accurate. And I have no reason to believe otherwise. Me, I’m nobody. Just somebody who fell in love with the sport in high school and have been coaching at that level ever since while following college and international wrestling as close as anybody.
But if you ever find yourself in Dayton, Ohio and are up for a beer let me know. My day job is an owner/operator of a brewery and always up for talking wrestling over a cold one.
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Discussion Topic: NCAA Division I Brackets
Justin Hayes added to this discussion on March 12, 2023
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Discussion Topic: NCAA Division I Brackets
John Joyce added to this discussion on March 13, 2023
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Quote from Justin Hayes's post:
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"Which brewery, Joyce?"
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Branch & Bone Artisan Ales
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Discussion Topic: NCAA Division I Brackets
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on March 13, 2023
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Mendez moves up to the #13 seed. Now vs. McGhee in Rd 2.
11th seed McGonigal from Lehigh is out with an injury.
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Discussion Topic: NCAA Division I Brackets
Jack Muni added to this discussion on March 13, 2023
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I think this favors Mendez, I didn't want him to wrestle Vito, a guy who just beat him. I'm hoping Kinner can beat Gomez who has beaten Sammy 3 times now, bad knee or not.
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Discussion Topic: NCAA Division I Brackets
Nick Lecklider added to this discussion on March 13, 2023
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Millner is reported out at 149. No Gomez and sasso round two now
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Discussion Topic: NCAA Division I Brackets
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 13, 2023
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Quote from Nick Lecklider's post:
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"Millner is reported out at 149. No Gomez and sasso round two now"
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That's really good news. I have no idea how healthy Gomez is but that has traditionally been a bad match up for Sam.
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Discussion Topic: NCAA Division I Brackets
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 13, 2023
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These changes may cause some of us to re-do our ow.net picks. I spent a good ten minutes making my decisions and I hate to think I may need to adjust my picks.
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Discussion Topic: NCAA Division I Brackets
Bruce Andrews added to this discussion on March 13, 2023
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Ten Minutes? That's serious analysis. I only spent a minute but I am aiming for the middle of the pack to upend Justin from his spot.
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Discussion Topic: NCAA Division I Brackets
Justin Hayes added to this discussion on March 13, 2023
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Quote from Bruce Andrews's post:
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"Ten Minutes? That's serious analysis. I only spent a minute but I am aiming for the middle of the pack to upend Justin from his spot."
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Come at me, bruh...: )
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Discussion Topic: NCAA Division I Brackets
Jeff Fortman added to this discussion on March 13, 2023
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Just did mine,spent about 20 minutes and 2 under the cap.
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Discussion Topic: NCAA Division I Brackets
Jeff Reid added to this discussion on March 16, 2023
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Brackets redone at 133, giving Mendez a much better path. He could see #4 seed Michael McGee (20-10 record) in the second round.
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