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Discussion Topic: Messenbrink
Drew Taylor added to this discussion on January 23, 2024
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Nick, unless you know otherwise, Messenbrink was never coming. He always wanted to be at Penn State.
Ohio State did pursue him.
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Discussion Topic: Messenbrink
Nick Lecklider added to this discussion on January 23, 2024
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In a Tom Ryan interview this summer he said that we thought about bringing in some transfer portal but we decided we weren’t going to dish out the nil money bc no one would have improved the team enough basically. If I have time to look I can try to find the interview. Messenbrink was the only one that I heard of that Ohio state was ever serious about. If they did not offer him Nil I don’t think there was ever a serious enough Persuit. If Penn state wants someone they usually do get them.
https://www.flowrestling.org/video/11160052-tom-ryan-talks-college-wrestlings-transfer-issues-ohio-state-lineup-shift
10 min in claiming he had a stud at every weight and would only get maybe two more points from the portal using nil. That is not realistic thinking. Penn state added about 40-50 points from a already stacked team. If you aren’t using the transfer portal you aren’t in the running in todays NCAA tourney period.
Who in this team would you bet on to be an all American this year.?Only one I would is Jesse. Demilio is probably 50/50. Bouzakis is probably third best odds but still needs a good weekend. Feldman and Geog just look too small this year and can’t seem to finish shots against the elite. Anyways just a lot of holes that the nil can possibly fill after a season assessment.
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Discussion Topic: Messenbrink
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on January 24, 2024
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I think OSU is better than Michigan this year.
They're rarely better than PSU and Iowa.
I still like the way Coach Ryan is doing it.
IMO wrestling is different than football. In football, national titles are the expectation. In wrestling we can support and follow a methodology even if it creates a 3rd place finish.
My opinion: I like the way Coach Ryan is curating his roster.
If he finishes in 3rd behind 2 teams of mercenaries, I'm fine with it.
I understand if others disagree.
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Discussion Topic: Messenbrink
Drew Taylor added to this discussion on January 24, 2024
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Ethan, you say OSU is better than Michigan this year. Big statement. Michigan is ranked higher at most weights. Are you calling an upset on Friday?
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Discussion Topic: Messenbrink
Brian Mathews added to this discussion on January 24, 2024
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Quote from Nick Lecklider's post:
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"In a Tom Ryan interview this summer he said that we thought about bringing in some transfer portal but we decided we weren’t going to dish out the nil money bc no one would have improved the team enough basically. If I have time to look I can try to find the interview. Messenbrink was the only one that I heard of that Ohio state was ever serious about. If they did not offer him Nil I don’t think there was ever a serious enough Persuit. If Penn state wants someone they usually do get them.
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Tom was talking about short term rentals when he said that. Guys like Truax, DeAugustino, Davison, Olejnik, Franek, etc.
However, I do agree with you that the OSU staff has a tough time being objective about their own guys' prospects. Obviously they believe in their guys. They look at the lineup and they see 8 or 9 potential AA's. That's great, they should be operating that way. It doesn't help anyone if they're walking around saying "Hey kid, if you work really hard this year you can probably get 9th at the big 10 tournament and squeak into NCAA's."
But there does come a time when somebody there needs to be realistic, and tough decisions need to be made.
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Discussion Topic: Messenbrink
Drew Taylor added to this discussion on January 24, 2024
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Amine considered Ohio State even after his entire family went to Michigan? Very interesting.
Had he come he would’ve been part of that top-ranked class with Kerkvliet, Decatur, Kharchla and D’Emilio. Wilcox was also part of the class.
Tom Ryan absolutely will grab a transfer to address a weak lineup spot. He did it when he took Joey McKenna to replace Keshawn Hayes and again when he took Tate Orndorff to replace Gas Tank Gary.
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Discussion Topic: Messenbrink
Brian Mathews added to this discussion on January 24, 2024
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Quote from Drew Taylor's post:
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"Tom Ryan absolutely will grab a transfer to address a weak lineup spot. He did it when he took Joey McKenna to replace Keshawn Hayes and again when he took Tate Orndorff to replace Gas Tank Gary."
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Agreed, it's just that transfers now are pricier than in years past.
I know we discussed it at the time but I believe TR's somewhat anti-transfer rhetoric is just a result of his financial constraints vis-à-vis PSU, Iowa and Michigan.
In a perfect world he's building a war chest behind the scenes. Particularly with Sammy not available, and an extremely young lineup, this is an ideal year to stockpile resources, take stock of what he has, and figure out where best to put those resources to work.
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Discussion Topic: Messenbrink
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on January 24, 2024
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"I know we discussed it at the time but I believe TR's somewhat anti-transfer rhetoric is just a result of his financial constraints vis-à-vis PSU, Iowa and Michigan.
In a perfect world he's building a war chest behind the scenes. Particularly with Sammy not available, and an extremely young lineup, this is an ideal year to stockpile resources, take stock of what he has, and figure out where best to put those resources to work."
A lot of wisdom right here in my opinion.
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Discussion Topic: Messenbrink
Justin Hayes added to this discussion on January 25, 2024
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Discussion Topic: Messenbrink
Rex Holman added to this discussion on January 26, 2024
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My next question is does this work against David Carr and Keegan O'Toole who are measured and position wrestlers.
If so, then he's the next big thing in wrestling.
And it's a statement on the importance of set ups, attacking both sides and working in and out of tie ups.
Have not seen his hands out of position or defend solid leg attacks of which he will likely be tested against O'Toole and Carr.
It is Penn State and his coach is Cael, who mastered a similar but difference offensive attack. Won't surprise me if he beats everyone.
It's the same rapidity of Nolf but with the physicality and nasty of Starocci.
Anyway, I'm thankful for his style of wrestling.
I would make a bold statement but will hold off for now.
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Discussion Topic: Messenbrink
Bruce Andrews added to this discussion on January 26, 2024
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He does make positional errors as evidenced by his match with Caleb Fish. He was losing halfway through that match but Fish was not able to keep up the pace and faded at the end.
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Discussion Topic: Messenbrink
Rex Holman added to this discussion on January 26, 2024
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Discussion Topic: Messenbrink
Alex Creech added to this discussion on January 26, 2024
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Quote from Nick Lecklider's post:
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"In a Tom Ryan interview this summer he said that we thought about bringing in some transfer portal but we decided we weren’t going to dish out the nil money bc no one would have improved the team enough basically. If I have time to look I can try to find the interview. Messenbrink was the only one that I heard of that Ohio state was ever serious about. If they did not offer him Nil I don’t think there was ever a serious enough Persuit. If Penn state wants someone they usually do get them.
https://www.flowrestling.org/video/11160052-tom-ryan-talks-college-wrestlings-transfer-issues-ohio-state-lineup-shift
10 min in claiming he had a stud at every weight and would only get maybe two more points from the portal using nil. That is not realistic thinking. Penn state added about 40-50 points from a already stacked team. If you aren’t using the transfer portal you aren’t in the running in todays NCAA tourney period.
Who in this team would you bet on to be an all American this year.?Only one I would is Jesse. Demilio is probably 50/50. Bouzakis is probably third best odds but still needs a good weekend. Feldman and Geog just look too small this year and can’t seem to finish shots against the elite. Anyways just a lot of holes that the nil can possibly fill after a season assessment."
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I'm not sure what you are complaining about. At the time all these guys were in the portal (not now), who exactly would you have pursued in order to bump an existing guy out of the lineup? I agree with Tom, I don't see anyone that would have appreciably improved the scoring at NCAAs at the cost of culture and developing existing guys. Other than maybe Mesenbrink, who they did pursue but were never going to get. Look at all the guys Iowa and Michigan got and they aren't winning the title and could still miss the podium.
I wouldn't use tOSU football as some example of suddenly buying into the portal hype. They've used the portal previously and I would say they are still using the same philosophy of being very selective and making sure it's a fit culture wise.
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Discussion Topic: Messenbrink
Ron Hreha added to this discussion on January 26, 2024
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To me, its a timing problem and how much NIL money is available to Ohio State Wrestling. Using NIL money now might have gotten the Buckeyes a trophy at NCAAs (top 4). Maybe it's wiser to wait a year or two when Bouzakis, Mendez, Davino, Welsh, Feldman, etc become grown men and ALL become the beasts in their weight classes that we all want them to be. Then go to the transfer portal/use NIL money to get those precious few points at NCAAs, in a run towards a championship. Maybe next year is the time, where Sammy Sasso hopefully returns to form
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Discussion Topic: Messenbrink
Nick Lecklider added to this discussion on January 26, 2024
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Messenbrink is the only one that truly mattered bc he is a four year guy in the last cycle. To say we were never going to get him I disagree from everything I have heard from sources. We were a favorite at one point. The deciding factor was nil and we didn’t compete with Penn state. I would have unloaded any resource possible to get him. I am more concerned about this upcoming offseason at this point. If Ohio state truly wants to challenge they will need to go to portal. Look what Cael did to top prospect Facundo. All I’m saying is Tom has a biased view to his team and this may cloud his judgment. Yes one year guys aren’t worth it. Cael has a killer instinct and will over recruit anyone in his lineup that doesn’t meet his very high expectations. After march honest assessments need to be made. I love the young team and the recruits coming in but to compete you need to also win portal which Ohio state hasn’t done yet. A kid like Bo Bassett is probably out of the question. He is gonna want $$$$$$ and is going to be worth it. He announced his college list and literally named every college. It may just be a bidding war. Tom has had a relationship with him for years but I fear that is not enough.
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Quote from Alex Creech's post:
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"
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Quote from Nick Lecklider's post:
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"In a Tom Ryan interview this summer he said that we thought about bringing in some transfer portal but we decided we weren’t going to dish out the nil money bc no one would have improved the team enough basically. If I have time to look I can try to find the interview. Messenbrink was the only one that I heard of that Ohio state was ever serious about. If they did not offer him Nil I don’t think there was ever a serious enough Persuit. If Penn state wants someone they usually do get them.
https://www.flowrestling.org/video/11160052-tom-ryan-talks-college-wrestlings-transfer-issues-ohio-state-lineup-shift
10 min in claiming he had a stud at every weight and would only get maybe two more points from the portal using nil. That is not realistic thinking. Penn state added about 40-50 points from a already stacked team. If you aren’t using the transfer portal you aren’t in the running in todays NCAA tourney period.
Who in this team would you bet on to be an all American this year.?Only one I would is Jesse. Demilio is probably 50/50. Bouzakis is probably third best odds but still needs a good weekend. Feldman and Geog just look too small this year and can’t seem to finish shots against the elite. Anyways just a lot of holes that the nil can possibly fill after a season assessment."
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I'm not sure what you are complaining about. At the time all these guys were in the portal (not now), who exactly would you have pursued in order to bump an existing guy out of the lineup? I agree with Tom, I don't see anyone that would have appreciably improved the scoring at NCAAs at the cost of culture and developing existing guys. Other than maybe Mesenbrink, who they did pursue but were never going to get. Look at all the guys Iowa and Michigan got and they aren't winning the title and could still miss the podium.
I wouldn't use tOSU football as some example of suddenly buying into the portal hype. They've used the portal previously and I would say they are still using the same philosophy of being very selective and making sure it's a fit culture wise."
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