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Discussion Topic: 2024 Olympic Team Trials
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on April 23, 2024
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Snyder is excellent of course but 97 in America seemed far less challenging than the other weights.
Someone can correct my history here, but were there any other college national titles in the weight other than Snyder?
Compare that with 86KG, where there were maybe 16 NCAA titles?
74KG, maybe 14?
All this is off memory so feel free to disagree. I just noticed the stark lack of depth at 97KG. Trumble is a 2X NCAA qualifier and hasn't AAd. Yeesh.
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Discussion Topic: 2024 Olympic Team Trials
Brian Mathews added to this discussion on April 23, 2024
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Quote from Ethan Moore's post:
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"Snyder is excellent of course but 97 in America seemed far less challenging than the other weights.
Someone can correct my history here, but were there any other college national titles in the weight other than Snyder?
Compare that with 86KG, where there were maybe 16 NCAA titles?
74KG, maybe 14?
All this is off memory so feel free to disagree. I just noticed the stark lack of depth at 97KG. Trumble is a 2X NCAA qualifier and hasn't AAd. Yeesh."
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Machchiavello is a 1x champ, but regardless your point stands.
I think this is a bit of an unfortunate side effect of our collegiate weight classes. We go straight from 197 to 285. This incentivizes the majority of guys that are natural ~225's to build up to 285 in order to compete, starting as early as high school.
The number of guys that can stay near 97kg and compete effectively at college heavyweight is limited. Snyder was miles ahead of his competition and still struggled at times with the size.
Guys that wrestle 197 pounds in college are typically better suited for 92kg. Those that attempt to bulk up to 97kg tend to be undersized, or lose some of their speed and athleticism as they tack on more weight (see: Cox, Moore, Jackson, Macch, etc.).
Side note--don't sleep on Trumble. He's a legit freestyler. U23 world champ and has competed very well internationally. He's not some random NCAA qualifier with no bona fides.
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Discussion Topic: 2024 Olympic Team Trials
Ben Golden added to this discussion on April 23, 2024
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Yeah, I was impressed by Trumble. He created some situations with Snyder. I'm interested to watch him more over the next quad.
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Discussion Topic: 2024 Olympic Team Trials
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on April 23, 2024
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Quote from Ethan Moore's post:
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"Snyder is excellent of course but 97 in America seemed far less challenging than the other weights.
Someone can correct my history here, but were there any other college national titles in the weight other than Snyder?"
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Cox had 3 NCAA Titles. He's "pretty decent". :)
Kollin, in all likelihood, would have had one the Covid year.
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Discussion Topic: 2024 Olympic Team Trials
Ben Golden added to this discussion on April 23, 2024
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I think the point is valid. The field at 97 kg is much weaker. Cox had been that challenger on paper, though he hadn't shown up in years. Other than that, there's been no one else in the weight class that looks like a world medalist. At 74 kg and 86 kg, there are numerous US challengers that could likely medal--or even that have medaled.
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Discussion Topic: 2024 Olympic Team Trials
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on April 23, 2024
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Discussion Topic: 2024 Olympic Team Trials
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on April 23, 2024
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Quote from Ben Golden's post:
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"I think the point is valid. The field at 97 kg is much weaker. Cox had been that challenger on paper, though he hadn't shown up in years. Other than that, there's been no one else in the weight class that looks like a world medalist. At 74 kg and 86 kg, there are numerous US challengers that could likely medal--or even that have medaled."
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For me, what makes this argument less strong is the fact that Snyder has medaled in every World event he's been in -- meaning that unless one or two other guys in the world was in his weight here at the US, he's still in the same position.
NOW -- WHen JB was beating Dake/Taylor/Howe/etc. to makes teams, he was probably beating a top 5 guy in the World to make the team. Something KS hasn't had to do -- but by his results, he would have if he had to.
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Discussion Topic: 2024 Olympic Team Trials
Ben Golden added to this discussion on April 23, 2024
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Well, you just don't know, right? Probably didn't predict Brooks eclipsing Taylor this year based on Taylor's world-level dominance. Snyder has a significantly bigger moat around him domestically, while less dominant on world level. Zahid, Dieringer, Brooks have been world-medal level opponents at 86 kg in recent years. At 74 kg, you have Dake/Burroughs/Nolf (not positive Nolf is that guy, but he's on the fringe).
Where the conversation is relevant to me is skipping ahead to the next Olympics. Is there going to be someone truly challenging a 32-year-old Snyder at the next OTT the way we saw Taylor pushed by Brooks/Zahid recently?
Looking at the landscape today, it's hard to see such a challenger, but sometimes these starts emerge quickly.
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Discussion Topic: 2024 Olympic Team Trials
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on April 23, 2024
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Quote from Ben Golden's post:
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"Well, you just don't know, right? Probably didn't predict Brooks eclipsing Taylor this year based on Taylor's world-level dominance. "
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Didn't predict it but watching their two matches at Final X last year and seeing how much bigger Brooks is this year, it's a surprise but not a shock.
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Discussion Topic: 2024 Olympic Team Trials
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on April 23, 2024
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Quote from Ben Golden's post:
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"Well, you just don't know, right? Probably didn't predict Brooks eclipsing Taylor this year based on Taylor's world-level dominance. "
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Didn't predict it but watching their two matches at Final X last year and seeing how much bigger Brooks is this year, it's a surprise but not a shock.
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Discussion Topic: 2024 Olympic Team Trials
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on April 23, 2024
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Hassan Yazdani posted a couple times about D.T. losing to Brooks. Translation had him saying "Goodbye Witch" which did make me laugh a little --- because who could beat him except a witch!
Anyway, he was asked if he was happy D.T. lost and he said, "a little but I'm mostly sad".
Iranian fans comments were awesome. Praising D.T. as a "legend' and a "true champion".
Many comments on they were sad because Hassan vs Taylor was "beautiful wrestling" but happy because Hassan's chances of winning the Olympics is much greater vs Brooks than vs Taylor.
Was fun to read. They sure do love their wrestling and have great respect for wrestlers around the globe.
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Discussion Topic: 2024 Olympic Team Trials
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on April 23, 2024
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Hassan Yazdani posted a couple times about D.T. losing to Brooks. Translation had him saying "Goodbye Witch" which did make me laugh a little --- because who could beat him except a witch!
Anyway, he was asked if he was happy D.T. lost and he said, "a little but I'm mostly sad".
Iranian fans comments were awesome. Praising D.T. as a "legend' and a "true champion".
Many comments on they were sad because Hassan vs Taylor was "beautiful wrestling" but happy because Hassan's chances of winning the Olympics is much greater vs Brooks than vs Taylor.
Was fun to read. They sure do love their wrestling and have great respect for wrestlers around the globe.
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Discussion Topic: 2024 Olympic Team Trials
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on April 24, 2024
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Watching Taylor beat Yazdani ranks pretty high on my wrestling spectator list. Very cool.
Unfortunately for Iranians, Brooks is also a generational talent much like his predecessor at the weight.
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Discussion Topic: 2024 Olympic Team Trials
Dan Strope added to this discussion on April 24, 2024
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How quickly everybody seems to discard Dake in these conversations. 74 kg was insanely deep at the trials, yet I never felt a rapidly improving Nolf was even remotely close to scoring on him.
If he beats Sidakov and wins gold where does he rank as the face of USA Wrestling? He beat the goat for the national team spot when it was unthinkable and then lost a very close match to American slayer Sidakov.
Maybe he's on to something and is actually getting younger....
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Discussion Topic: 2024 Olympic Team Trials
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on April 24, 2024
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Curious if Dake went to NLWC to get a feel for the guys he will have to beat to make the team.
I know they get to the chance to feel you out but when you are already better then them, does it matter?
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