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Discussion Topic: So Who's Running Ohio State Wrestling...
Roe Fox added to this discussion on May 9, 2024
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Quote from Jeff Streu's post:
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Quote from Brady Hiatt's post:
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Quote from Roe Fox's post:
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"I see it differently simply because of the 4 time 159-0 vs. 2 time and getting pinned in the finals one year."
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Collegiately I agree with you. Overall icon status for today's kids, JB and D.T. are it -- they never even saw Cael wrestle. That makes a huge difference."
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Agree with you 100%. Cael was a college legend but never won world gold. David is on a short list of guys who have won NCAA, World, and Olympic titles.
I agree even more with the fact that kids today never saw Cael wrestle. When I started coaching the club at the University of Akron in 2014 I had a kid who asked "Who's Rulon?" I had an underclassmen this year who didn't know who Logan Stieber was - I almost threw him off the balcony, until he told me that he didn't even start wrestling until 2017..."
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This is fun because this is one of those debates we will likely have an answer to in 2-3 years. My initial comment was in relation to recruiting. There are some measurable with that. I am not convinced Cael’s iconic status will suffer a lot long term because of D.T.. If he retires, different story.
I grew up with Gable being the icon. I think on some level he still resonates. But I never thought anyone would approach him. I think Cael certainly has. Clearly PSU is what Iowa was in the 80s-90s: the place for top recruits to go to win titles.
I simply don’t see that with D.T., not now and I don’t think ever. We will see as I like him. I hoped he would have made it to Paris. We need OSU to be near the top again — after TOSU.
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Discussion Topic: So Who's Running Ohio State Wrestling...
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on May 9, 2024
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I agree with most of what you typed, Roe. I do not think D.T. is on Cael's level, and I do not see him reaching it anytime soon.
If I ask kids on my HS team about wrestlers they've heard of in their time in the sport, almost all have mentioned Cael. None have mentioned D.T.. (Sadly, none of them knows of Logan Stieber either, but I digress.) I have heard mentions of Gable Steveson, Dan Gable (probably getting this from their (over)zealous dad), Brock Lesnar, and even Spencer Lee. It might be a "window of time" thing.
Note: They know darn good and well who Tommy Rowlands is. No one makes the team without passing the 25 questions, two-part essay quiz. ;-)
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Discussion Topic: So Who's Running Ohio State Wrestling...
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on May 9, 2024
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Quote from Mark Niemann's post:
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"None have mentioned D.T."
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Hard to believe not one kid mentions the most exciting US wrestler of the past 6 years and a consensus P4P best in the world the past 2 years. They are missing out.
There is a reason the M2 training center, in a couple years, attracted freaks like Haines and Kasak.
Think of who in the US has ever been considered the P4P best in the world? Smith, Burroughs, Snyder, Taylor. I think Gable, Monday and Shultz may have been and that's it.
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Discussion Topic: So Who's Running Ohio State Wrestling...
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on May 9, 2024
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I'd throw Lee Kemp in there but your point is valid. Remember, if Kemp isn't forced to boycott in 1980, he's probably a 3x World Champ, an Olympic gold medalist and a World Bronze. At that time, he'd have been considered the best wrestler in US history.
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Discussion Topic: So Who's Running Ohio State Wrestling...
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on May 9, 2024
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"I'd throw Lee Kemp in there but your point is valid. Remember, if Kemp isn't forced to boycott in 1980, he's probably a 3x World Champ, an Olympic gold medalist and a World Bronze. At that time, he'd have been considered the best wrestler in US history."
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He may have been; one of the biggest heartbreaks of US Wrestling -- right there with Kolat IMHO.
But I don't know if he was considered the P4P best in the world because of the Belaglasov's of the world -- and I was only 3 to 9 when he was competing. :)
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Discussion Topic: So Who's Running Ohio State Wrestling...
Ben Golden added to this discussion on May 10, 2024
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Seems a lot of thoughts on someone's icon status has to do with your age. Taylor has been absolutely spectacular at every level for the last 20+ years, dating back to elementary school in all likelihood.
I don't think there is anyone in history who has been arguably the USA's best pound-for-pound wrestler at literally EVERY level of competition from elementary school through senior level. Most that are the best p4p in the country in elementary school fizzle long before they reach the Olympics. Logan Stieber may have been able to make that claim as well, but he stopped competing in 2018, a time when his contemporaries (Dake, Taylor) started making their tremendous senior level runs.
It's not only the results he gets, it's the spectacularly dominant, high scoring manner in which he does it... including in the World/Olympic finals.
I agree that I wouldn't bet on Taylor rising to the level of Gable or Cael in coaching, but no one would have bet on either of them to do that either. You can't have that expectation of anyone who is just starting out their coaching career. However, going into it, I think Taylor is in a pretty comparable stature to Gable and Cael at the beginnings of their coaching careers.
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Discussion Topic: So Who's Running Ohio State Wrestling...
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on May 11, 2024
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With the season change from winter to spring, there are more birds in the air.
One little birdie informed me that Tom Ryan was at practice yesterday. I doubt he’s drilling live currently, but I’d have to think it’s great having him in the room.
Tweet tweet.
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Last edited by Mark Niemann on May 11, 2024; edited 1 time in total
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Discussion Topic: So Who's Running Ohio State Wrestling...
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on May 11, 2024
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Tom Ryan is in the room? Why do I picture the knight from Monty Python with all his limbs cut off screaming for someone to fight him?
Seriously, that's great news.
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Discussion Topic: So Who's Running Ohio State Wrestling...
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on May 13, 2024
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"Tom Ryan is in the room? Why do I picture the knight from Monty Python with all his limbs cut off screaming for someone to fight him?
Seriously, that's great news."
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I can see this as well. Indomitable spirit!
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Discussion Topic: So Who's Running Ohio State Wrestling...
Scott Clemmons added to this discussion on May 13, 2024
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Discussion Topic: So Who's Running Ohio State Wrestling...
Roe Fox added to this discussion on May 14, 2024
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Three observations from that picture:
1. Great to see Tom back
2. Kollin next to Feldman looks big
3. If who I think is Paddy, no way he is 157 this year, is he? To me, he looks bigger than Carson.
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Discussion Topic: So Who's Running Ohio State Wrestling...
Jim Behrens added to this discussion on May 14, 2024
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Quote from Roe Fox's post:
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3. If who I think is Paddy, no way he is 157 this year, is he? To me, he looks bigger than Carson."
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Having stood next to them at various events, I was always amazed by how small Carson is compared to his weight.
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