|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Riding Time
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on March 19, 2012
|
James you couldn't make me mad if you tried. Well, maybe if you broke one of my fly rods...on purpose.
As for keeping Logan down...I'm impressed if you think you could. I've got a couple pounds on him these days and used to know how to ride pretty well, but I'm not sure I could swing it (without a gun).
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Riding Time
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on March 19, 2012
|
Currently, I'm in Pat's boat on this one.
No, Patrick, not a fishing boat, but rather the fact that I could even come close to holding NATIONAL CHAMPION Logan Stieber down. I'm 5'11" (and shrinking somehow), around 195 pounds, and I honestly believe that there isn't one person on the entire team I could hold down...
But then again, I guess that isn't really saying much...
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Riding Time
Ben Roerig added to this discussion on March 19, 2012
|
|
Quote from Mark Niemann's post:
|
|
"Currently, I'm in Pat's boat on this one.
No, Patrick, not a fishing boat, but rather the fact that I could even come close to holding NATIONAL CHAMPION Logan Stieber down. I'm 5'11" (and shrinking somehow), around 195 pounds, and I honestly believe that there isn't one person on the entire team I could hold down...
But then again, I guess that isn't really saying much..."
|
This sounds like a bizarre carnival attraction. "Double your money by holding down NCAA Champion Logan Stieber for two minutes!"
I'd rather try my luck at winning a goldfish. A lot less humiliating.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Riding Time
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on March 19, 2012
|
^^^That right there is pretty funny.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Riding Time
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on March 19, 2012
|
I am all for riding time. The top position is one of three positions in the sport, people who work to become strong in that position should be rewarded.
What I see as a fairly easy solution is to call stalemate quicker. The Hunter-Russell match is a perfect example, if they would have stopped the action after, say, 20 seconds of Russell riding the wrist and not coming close to turning Hunter, I would have thought that was fair. Russell could try to regain dominance and Hunter would get a restart. I don't like a stall call there becuase, by advancing RT, Russell is trying to score.
Lots of good ideas in this thread.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Riding Time
Don Bork added to this discussion on March 19, 2012
|
Riding is one of the skills our collegiates work hard at, but that is only because there is reward in it. I stated in another thread that if the rider is not making any real attempt at turning the defensive wrestler that they should be stood up to wrestle from their feet. Internationally after a takedown the top man is normally given a very short time, perhaps 10 to 12 seconds. I would think that for folk purposes we allow something in manner of 30 seconds. If you haven't been able to turn the bottom man, stand them up. If you get a takedown you'll have another opportunity to turn your man. But nobody is going to secure one minute of riding time in a single ride. I hate seeing a wrestler choose top, ride with no real attempt at turning the bottom man, and securing a point. That's a lot of wasted time in my mind and if we are going improve our International competitors, then stressing takedowns, tilts and turns is what we should be training our wrestlers for. They will work hard at whatever skills they are going to benefit from. If we continue to reward riding for ridings sake riding is the skill our kids will work at.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Riding Time
John Ice added to this discussion on March 19, 2012
|
What do you do when there is no attempt at a takedown? That happens all the time and is as hard to watch as someone soaking up riding time.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Riding Time
Fred Feeney added to this discussion on March 20, 2012
|
Some stalling thoughts.
At D3's....I called 4 stalling calls total. 1 was in neutral, one was top man, 2 were bottom man.
In the D1's...if you followed it, most of the stalling calls were on the bottom man.
Huge difference between how the majority of high school referees call it and college guys call it.
I don't think, as Jim points out that is is because of riding time, I think its because its perceived differently by the two levels. In high school, refs want the kid to create an angle, get off the hips and work towards turning and pinning. Same in college, but...the typical high school referee isn't patient and will ding the top guy way more often and quicker than the bottom kid for not working harder. My feeling is...that most high school refs don't recognize stalling when it is occurring, versus trying to artificially "create" action.
Stalling is much easier to call in the neutral. If one kid is up by a point, with a min to go...he is apt to go backwards, head down, butt out, blocking off.
In the top position, in either high school or college, if there is a TD, within the first minute, unless the top guy throws both boots in and does nothing but lay on the bottom guy, he does get some time to work that position. My question is...whats the bottom guy doing? Countering? Basing out? Content to just not getting turned? The top guy put him there...in my mind...I expect the bottom kid to..do something more than lay there.
I did a high school dual tournament this year and one of the coaches came to me and said "in watching you work, you tend to hit the bottom kid first, where the other refs hit the top kid". So I explained my philosophy and he agreed and wish more refs would follow suite. I think, through the OWOA and the possibility of regional evaluators, high school coaches will start to see a switch in the coming years.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Riding Time
Don Bork added to this discussion on March 20, 2012
|
I agree, John, I don't enjoy watching a match with wrestlers on their feet being completely defensive waiting to get down on the mat to try to win a 1-0 match. Again, it comes back to what is rewarded and how rules are written. let's steer this sport in a direction that rewards agressiveness. I enjoy watching Cam Tessari wrestle. let's steer the sport in the direction of aggressive wrestling.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
