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Discussion Topic: Penn State v. Iowa; Friday, Jan. 28th
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on January 28, 2022
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At full strength I have the following
125 Iowa 3-0
133 PSU 3-3
141 PSU 6-3
149 Iowa 6-6
157 Iowa 9-6
165 Iowa 12-6
174 PSU 12-9
184 PSU 12-12
197 PSU 15-12
285. PSU 18-12
I actually think Bucks will win as many against PSU as Iowa does. Difference is Bucks give up bonus at 33-41-285.
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Discussion Topic: Penn State v. Iowa; Friday, Jan. 28th
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on January 29, 2022
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Really great dual.
I’m surprised it was that close, and Iowa had chances to win.
Really every close match went to PSU.
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Discussion Topic: Penn State v. Iowa; Friday, Jan. 28th
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on January 29, 2022
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Quote from Ethan Moore's post:
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"Really great dual.
I’m surprised it was that close, and Iowa had chances to win.
Really every close match went to PSU."
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Warner had Dean on the ropes and blew it. Kem v Starocci could have gone either way.
Aside--Dean is a small 197 and was losing to both Warner and Brucki but came back. Both times conditioning was a factor.
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Discussion Topic: Penn State v. Iowa; Friday, Jan. 28th
Jack Muni added to this discussion on January 29, 2022
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I figure if Ayala had wrestled, Iowa may have won at 125, and if Warner had hung on they could have beaten PSU. Woulda coulda shouda I guess, but it was a very entertaining meet. And the ref wasn't afraid to call unsportsmanlike for the "Iowa edge of match shoving" that went on.
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Discussion Topic: Penn State v. Iowa; Friday, Jan. 28th
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on January 29, 2022
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It was a helluva match. Kem v Starocci was as hard fought and even a battle as you'll ever see....Marinelli exposed Berge as being out of shape for high level Big Ten comp (for the moment)...Bravo Young was passive against Desanto. I think he showed him too much respect...Kerkvliet got exposed vs Cassiopi. His best offensive attack got taken away and he repeatedly found himself in upper body situations which were not advantageous....Warner gassed and Dean was on it. I can still hear Warner screeching as Dean was hitting him with that bow and arrow. Ouch.
Suriano blew through McKee in the UM v UM dual. But Minny had a shot. Their 133 took the match to Ragusin for a long time before finally getting edged.
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Discussion Topic: Penn State v. Iowa; Friday, Jan. 28th
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on January 29, 2022
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Quote from Jack Muni's post:
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"I figure if Ayala had wrestled, Iowa may have won at 125, and if Warner had hung on they could have beaten PSU. Woulda coulda shouda I guess, but it was a very entertaining meet. And the ref wasn't afraid to call unsportsmanlike for the "Iowa edge of match shoving" that went on."
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I agree I think Ayala could have won but unfortunately rumors are he could be done for the season.
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Discussion Topic: Penn State v. Iowa; Friday, Jan. 28th
Jared Ball added to this discussion on January 30, 2022
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To be honest I think Penn State looked a little flat. I think that Iowa brought a ton of energy to the meet, but the gap will only widen. Even if Ayala wrestled he’s not beating Hildebrandt. I think he would’ve struggled on the mat as Hildebrandt is an exceptional top wrestler. DeSantos strategy was to win on stall calls. Hope, as they say, is not a strategy. He should’ve been dinged with a penalty point. You don’t make physical contact with a ref or get in their face like that. I couldn’t believe nothing came out of that. The results from 141-165 will probably stay the same. Eirman lacks the discipline to win matches against the Nick Lee’s and Joey McKenna’s of the world. I know he has beaten Lee before, but unless it’s a big move I’m not sure he has the offensive prowess to score off of his own leg attacks. Kemerer was Houdini for a lot of that match. Anyone else in the United States gives up two or threee takedowns off of those exchanges. As a whole the gap will widen. I could see a tighter contest at Big Tens, as has happened from time to time, but NCAA PSU is a different animal.
I still contend that Micic will not AA. You don’t wrestle 125lb people for three years then jump up to 141 and compete at the same level.
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Discussion Topic: Penn State v. Iowa; Friday, Jan. 28th
Jim Behrens added to this discussion on January 30, 2022
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Quote from Jared Ball's post:
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" He should’ve been dinged with a penalty point. You don’t make physical contact with a ref or get in their face like that. I couldn’t believe nothing came out of that. "
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You can only imagine what I was thinking when that happened. Absolutely amazed.
On another note, I know college has riding time but stalling is another issue completely. The officials seem to have swallowed their whistles on top and bottom. I watched a number of matches in the two duals where neither wrestler is doing anything, at all, to improve or work for something. I understand that "riding" is hard but once the one minute mark has passed and they are doing nothing, why is stalling not called??
We wonder why the sport doesn't have more fans? Tell me what would excite fans about watching two guys cuddle-humping and no action occurring?
Stalling seems to be clearly defined when backing out of the circle, when you are under Spencer Lee, or on the drop down. IOW, if it is clearly spelled out, then they will call it. When they have to make a call that might not be popular, it is not happening.
Rant over.
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Discussion Topic: Penn State v. Iowa; Friday, Jan. 28th
Bruce Andrews added to this discussion on January 30, 2022
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IMO much of the stalling is by the top guy who has thrown in double boots or a figure 4 on the thigh and is making a show of working on the bottom's man's head and shoulders to turn him. Yet they call stalling on the bottom man who is completely immobilized by the hold.
Rather than calling stalling on either wrestler, simply call a stalemate after 20 seconds or so.
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Discussion Topic: Penn State v. Iowa; Friday, Jan. 28th
Jim Behrens added to this discussion on January 30, 2022
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Quote from Bruce Andrews's post:
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"IMO much of the stalling is by the top guy who has thrown in double boots or a figure 4 on the thigh and is making a show of working on the bottom's man's head and shoulders to turn him. Yet they call stalling on the bottom man who is completely immobilized by the hold.
Rather than calling stalling on either wrestler, simply call a stalemate after 20 seconds or so."
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I agree with what you say with the exception that, by definition, it is not a stalemate. A stalemate is when neither can improve with out risk. A stall is when one of them chooses not to try to improve. In these cases, the offensive man has all kinds of options BUT because he knows that stalling will not be called, he doesn't have to change what he is "doing".
As long as there is no penalty called for lack of action, it will continue.
IMO, calling stalling on the bottom man when the legs are locked in and they are parallel is just stupid. I have no idea as to the justification.
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Discussion Topic: Penn State v. Iowa; Friday, Jan. 28th
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on January 30, 2022
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Quote from Jared Ball's post:
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"To be honest I think Penn State looked a little flat. I think that Iowa brought a ton of energy to the meet, but the gap will only widen. Even if Ayala wrestled he’s not beating Hildebrandt. I think he would’ve struggled on the mat as Hildebrandt is an exceptional top wrestler. DeSantos strategy was to win on stall calls. Hope, as they say, is not a strategy. He should’ve been dinged with a penalty point. You don’t make physical contact with a ref or get in their face like that. I couldn’t believe nothing came out of that. The results from 141-165 will probably stay the same. Eirman lacks the discipline to win matches against the Nick Lee’s and Joey McKenna’s of the world. I know he has beaten Lee before, but unless it’s a big move I’m not sure he has the offensive prowess to score off of his own leg attacks. Kemerer was Houdini for a lot of that match. Anyone else in the United States gives up two or threee takedowns off of those exchanges. As a whole the gap will widen. I could see a tighter contest at Big Tens, as has happened from time to time, but NCAA PSU is a different animal.
I still contend that Micic will not AA. You don’t wrestle 125lb people for three years then jump up to 141 and compete at the same level."
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RBY looked flat for sure. He is head and shoulders better than Desanto. But you underestimate Kemmerer. He is the best wrestler in that lineup and an extraordinary counter wrestler. I like that you note how Ayala was not beating Hildebrant. Hilde is no worse than 4th best at the weight and Ayala is a year away. Micic looks terrible but you forget he used to be 133 and owned Luke Pletcher. He looks like someone who no longer wants to wrestle folk. Iowa might have won that dual if Warner hadn't crumbled in the third period. But PSU will be the more prepared squad at end of season. History doesn't lie.
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Discussion Topic: Penn State v. Iowa; Friday, Jan. 28th
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on January 31, 2022
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Quote from Jim Kessen's post:
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"
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Quote from Jack Muni's post:
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"I figure if Ayala had wrestled, Iowa may have won at 125, and if Warner had hung on they could have beaten PSU. Woulda coulda shouda I guess, but it was a very entertaining meet. And the ref wasn't afraid to call unsportsmanlike for the "Iowa edge of match shoving" that went on."
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I agree I think Ayala could have won but unfortunately rumors are he could be done for the season."
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I see this different from most. Hilldy beats Ayala, IMHO, 8/10 times this year.
Edit: reading the rest of the posts, I see some agree with me.
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Discussion Topic: Penn State v. Iowa; Friday, Jan. 28th
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on February 1, 2022
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Quote from Brady Hiatt's post:
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"
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Quote from Jim Kessen's post:
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"
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Quote from Jack Muni's post:
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"I figure if Ayala had wrestled, Iowa may have won at 125, and if Warner had hung on they could have beaten PSU. Woulda coulda shouda I guess, but it was a very entertaining meet. And the ref wasn't afraid to call unsportsmanlike for the "Iowa edge of match shoving" that went on."
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I agree I think Ayala could have won but unfortunately rumors are he could be done for the season."
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I see this different from most. Hilldy beats Ayala, IMHO, 8/10 times this year.
Edit: reading the rest of the posts, I see some agree with me."
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I tend to agree but for this dual only I think Ayala wins mostly because it’s at Carver. Now at B10 I would lean PSU.
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Discussion Topic: Penn State v. Iowa; Friday, Jan. 28th
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on February 1, 2022
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I was very confused by the 285 match, having watched Kerkvliet pretty handily beat Parris from UM I thought this would be an easy win for Penn State.
I also had formed an opinion that while Cassioppi is excellent, he is far less athletic than Gable, Parris, and Kerkvliet and likely to never beat any of those three.
So that result and the way it happened was shocking.
My thoughts post-match:
Cassioppi is more athletic than I thought.
Kerkvliet may struggle against bigger heavies who wrestle a more traditional big-man style.
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Discussion Topic: Penn State v. Iowa; Friday, Jan. 28th
Don Bork added to this discussion on February 1, 2022
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I think Kerkvliet is has all the inherent tools (size and athletic ability) to be excellent, but is still a bit raw. I believe Cael had him well prepared for the match with Paris. I expect Cael saw that Paris was susceptible to the left side leg snatch and Kerkvliet had been thoroughly drilled in preparation. He was successful 3 times in executing and finishing. Cassiopi was also well prepared by his staff and didn’t fall victim to the same action. I think Cassiopi is more well rounded and comfortable in more positions at this point in their careers which allows him to win the match. Kerkvliet is also still not good underneath.
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